MonroeTalks.com > Categories > Politics and Government > Proposal 3


Poll

Proposal 3 as written

Yes
- 6 (25%)
No
- 18 (75%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Voting closed: November 02, 2012, 03:29:57 AM


Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 ... 13   Go Down

Author Topic: Proposal 3  (Read 5648 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ell

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4569
  • Nothing beats a good paddle
Re: Proposal 3
« Reply #75 on: October 08, 2012, 07:45:02 PM »

A wind turbine has 8,000 parts -- and all of them can be made in Michigan. See who's making what, where. Proposal 3 can spark new businesses and create 94,000 jobs that can't be outsourced.

"MADE" Michigan Energy, Michigan Jobs


That's a lot of jobs.  Unless it's going to take all those people to operate and maintain them, I don't see how they couldn't be outsourced.  Manufacturing and construction can be outsourced.  I would love to see 90,000+ good paying jobs come to the state.
Logged
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thouroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOO HOO what a ride!

excelsior

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3668
Re: Proposal 3
« Reply #76 on: October 08, 2012, 07:49:51 PM »

Not being critical.....but, has anyone seen the back up for the creation of 74,000 jobs?


Steve VanSlooten -Executive Vice President of Utility Workers Union of America claims for every new job created that 2.2 current jobs will be lost.

http://youtu.be/vSWtNwxejmI
Logged
"The beginning of wisdom is a definition of terms." ~ Socrates

"No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude." ~ Karl Popper

"What vitiates entirely the socialists economic critique of capitalism is their failure to grasp the sovereignty of the consumers in the market economy." ~ Ludwig von Mises

Frenchfry

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 32529
Re: Proposal 3
« Reply #77 on: October 08, 2012, 09:56:21 PM »

The Michigan State Utility Workers Council does not support this proposal.

http://msuwc.org/

Proposal 3 - 25% x 2025 - NO

The Utility Workers Union of America does not support this proposal.

http://youtu.be/vSWtNwxejmI
Steve VanSlooten -Executive Vice President of Utility Workers Union of America claims for every new job created that 2.2 current jobs will be lost.

http://youtu.be/vSWtNwxejmI
Posting the same 40 second video twice in a row doesn't help your cause.

And having a nobody dork standing there voicing his unqualified opinion just shows how desperate you righties really are.

That's akin to someone finding a cartoon video of Daffy Duck saying to vote yes because it's such a great idea.  8*

In short, not credible.
Logged
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
John Stuart Mill

Willful ignorance, PaTROLLing, bullying, dishonesty, and hypocrisy are among the traits that are common amongst those that espouse the Republican/Conservative/Tea Party ideology.

A non-response doesn't mean you've won, it merely means the obnoxious, illiterate, right-wing morons have taken too much of my time already.

excelsior

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3668
Re: Proposal 3
« Reply #78 on: October 08, 2012, 10:37:02 PM »

Posting the same 40 second video twice in a row doesn't help your cause.

And having a nobody dork standing there voicing his unqualified opinion just shows how desperate you righties really are.

That's akin to someone finding a cartoon video of Daffy Duck saying to vote yes because it's such a great idea.  8*

In short, not credible.

I am not sure why you are being so anti-union. You forgot to degrade the Michigan State Utility Workers Council as well.  You appear to have missed that I cited two state of Michigan utility workers' unions that oppose this amendment because they state that it will cost jobs.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 10:47:10 PM by excelsior »
Logged
"The beginning of wisdom is a definition of terms." ~ Socrates

"No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude." ~ Karl Popper

"What vitiates entirely the socialists economic critique of capitalism is their failure to grasp the sovereignty of the consumers in the market economy." ~ Ludwig von Mises

Frenchfry

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 32529
Re: Proposal 3
« Reply #79 on: October 08, 2012, 11:13:43 PM »

I am not sure why you are being so anti-union. You forgot to degrade the Michigan State Utility Workers Council as well.  You appear to have missed that I cited two state of Michigan utility workers' unions that oppose this amendment because they state that it will cost jobs.
May as well add their other opinions:

Proposal 1 - P4A Emergency Manager - NO
Proposal 2 - Protect Working Families - YES
Proposal 3 - 25% x 2025 - NO
Proposal 4 - Home Health Care - YES
Proposal 5 - 2/3 Tax Vote - NO
Proposal 6 - Bridge Vote - NO

http://msuwc.org/
Logged
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
John Stuart Mill

Willful ignorance, PaTROLLing, bullying, dishonesty, and hypocrisy are among the traits that are common amongst those that espouse the Republican/Conservative/Tea Party ideology.

A non-response doesn't mean you've won, it merely means the obnoxious, illiterate, right-wing morons have taken too much of my time already.

lilly

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1707
Re: Proposal 3
« Reply #80 on: October 09, 2012, 03:34:46 AM »

Added poll
Logged
Contestant 1: I'll take "Emotions of the Conservatives" for 1000 Alex.
Alex Trebek: These two emotions are the bane of Conservative existence.

Contestant 1: What are "empathy and compassion?"
Alex Trebek: "You're right for $1000"

excelsior

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3668
Re: Proposal 3
« Reply #81 on: October 09, 2012, 08:17:03 AM »

May as well add their other opinions:

Proposal 1 - P4A Emergency Manager - NO
Proposal 2 - Protect Working Families - YES
Proposal 3 - 25% x 2025 - NO
Proposal 4 - Home Health Care - YES
Proposal 5 - 2/3 Tax Vote - NO
Proposal 6 - Bridge Vote - NO

http://msuwc.org/


You stated that these union spokesman had "unqualified opinion" to speak to an amendment in their skilled trades. 

Why are you posting what these "dorks" think about other amendments that they are even less qualified to speak to?   
Logged
"The beginning of wisdom is a definition of terms." ~ Socrates

"No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude." ~ Karl Popper

"What vitiates entirely the socialists economic critique of capitalism is their failure to grasp the sovereignty of the consumers in the market economy." ~ Ludwig von Mises

Monroe Native

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12342
Re: Proposal 3
« Reply #82 on: October 09, 2012, 08:36:32 AM »

May as well add their other opinions:


http://msuwc.org/


Amazing that a Union endorses the Union proposals....
 ???
Logged
I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

lilly

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1707
Re: Proposal 3
« Reply #83 on: October 09, 2012, 08:55:22 AM »

Steve VanSlooten -Executive Vice President of Utility Workers Union of America claims for every new job created that 2.2 current jobs will be lost.

http://youtu.be/vSWtNwxejmI
I watched the video and did not see any corroborating evidence to his claim. How is it going to reduce jobs. No information is given to how that is going to happen.

I could claim that for every job that is created, 3 more will be added because of growth in the area, but without any proof, it really doesn't matter. But at least my statement has some bit of reasoning behind it, his has none.
Logged
Contestant 1: I'll take "Emotions of the Conservatives" for 1000 Alex.
Alex Trebek: These two emotions are the bane of Conservative existence.

Contestant 1: What are "empathy and compassion?"
Alex Trebek: "You're right for $1000"

Zdart

  • Active Talker
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 48
Re: Proposal 3
« Reply #84 on: October 12, 2012, 11:33:33 PM »

My semi-misinformed arse tells me "Don't put business decisions in the constitution" ..if  Ford was constitutionally mandated to sell 25K hybrids, and didn't, would that be on the taxpayers'dime? I don't like this one..just my 2 cents..
Logged

The Fuzz

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17704
  • Fish Lake Michigan!
Re: Proposal 3
« Reply #85 on: October 13, 2012, 07:03:04 AM »

That seems to be a popular theme, Zdart.  One that I agree with as well. 

Logged
Support the local economy as much as possible!

marilyn.monroe

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9218
Re: Proposal 3
« Reply #86 on: October 13, 2012, 07:37:45 AM »

Michigan jobs, Michigan energy!! 25% is not enough!!!
Logged

Frenchfry

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 32529
Re: Proposal 3
« Reply #87 on: October 13, 2012, 02:39:43 PM »

You stated that these union spokesman had "unqualified opinion" to speak to an amendment in their skilled trades. 

Why are you posting what these "dorks" think about other amendments that they are even less qualified to speak to?   
Nice...you presented their opinion as worthy of consideration primarily because it was a position on which you agreed.....but according to you, their other positions must be discounted...because you disagree with them.

Well thanks for allowing me to reiterate their positions:


May as well add their other opinions:
(My choices in blue)


Proposal 1 - P4A Emergency Manager - NO (NO)
Proposal 2 - Protect Working Families - YES (YES)
Proposal 3 - 25% x 2025 - NO (A selfish choice BTW....it should be YES)
Proposal 4 - Home Health Care - YES (YES)
Proposal 5 - 2/3 Tax Vote - NO (NO)
Proposal 6 - Bridge Vote - NO (NO...although International bridges should be built and operated by the governments involved)

http://msuwc.org/
Logged
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
John Stuart Mill

Willful ignorance, PaTROLLing, bullying, dishonesty, and hypocrisy are among the traits that are common amongst those that espouse the Republican/Conservative/Tea Party ideology.

A non-response doesn't mean you've won, it merely means the obnoxious, illiterate, right-wing morons have taken too much of my time already.

Professor H

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 11719
Re: Proposal 3
« Reply #88 on: October 13, 2012, 11:49:19 PM »

There should be a check-off on your utilities...

Check yes if you are willing to pay an extra % to support green energy alternatives.

How many do you think would actually do this?


It doesn't belong in the Constitution  PERIOD
Logged
First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

Frenchfry

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 32529
Re: Proposal 3
« Reply #89 on: October 14, 2012, 07:58:55 PM »

Proposal 3 in the November election – would cost an average of 50 cents per month for residential ratepayers between 2015 and 2025.
Proposal 3 will reduce energy costs for Michigan ratepayers

Report shows 25x25 plan would provide rate stability, create long-term savings for Michigan residents

Generating one quarter of Michigan’s electricity from renewable sources by 2025 would not have a significant impact on electricity rates and would actually reduce energy costs in the long term, a study released today concludes.

“25% by 2025: The Impact on Utility Rates of the Michigan Clean Renewable Electric Energy Standard” concludes that the renewable energy ballot plan – Proposal 3 in the November election – would cost an average of 50 cents per month for residential ratepayers between 2015 and 2025. The cost would not come close to reaching Proposal 3’s cost cap provision, which limits cost increases related to Proposal 3 to one percent.

The study, by George E. Sansoucy, P.E., LLC and Martin R. Cohen, also concluded that more renewable energy would create more stability in electric prices and help blunt the effects of rate increases Michiganders have been experiencing due to increasing coal and oil costs.

“Proposal 3 would help diversify the state’s energy mix, stabilize electricity rates, and create in-state jobs that can’t be outsourced,” said Chris Kolb, Michigan Environmental Council president. “This report shows that 25 percent is achievable, affordable, and a thoughtful investment in the economic health of our state.”

Martin R. Cohen, one of the report’s authors, said it used data from the utility companies’ federal and state regulatory filings, forecasts by the Energy Information Administration (EIA) and other available information to examine the effect of Proposal 3 on ratepayer electricity costs.

“Renewable energy is becoming more and more cost competitive with other energy sources. Meeting the 25 percent standard will have little effect on Michiganders’ electric bills,” said Cohen.

The report released today was commissioned by the Michigan Environmental Council, which has been intervening in rate increase cases before the Michigan Public Service Commission for the last ten years on behalf of residential ratepayers.

Conclusions include:

    The impact of Proposal 3 on electric rates would be minimal – Over the decade of 2016 to 2025, electric rates in Michigan would average 0.5% (one-half of one percent) higher under the proposed 25% renewable energy standard than under the current 10% standard. Between 2016 and 2025 monthly electric bills of a typical residential utility customer would be higher by an average of about 50 cents a month.
    Proposal 3 would reduce rates long term – After the initial investments are made in the first ten years, renewable assets would put downward pressure on rates starting around 2027. By 2030, the higher renewable standard would be saving customers more than 80 cents per month and would continue to do so over the life of the facilities.
    Cost trends favor renewable energy – Renewable energy continues to decline in price, with some technologies already cost-competitive with fossil-fueled energy. In contrast, the cost of coal-fired power (Michigan’s predominant power source) is increasing rapidly. Nearly 60 percent of Michigan’s electricity comes from imported coal.
    Proposal 3 would result in greater rate stability – Contracts for wind energy and some other renewable resources can guarantee costs at least 20 years into the future. These long-term guarantees provide greater stability and predictability to electricity rates, making the 25% RES a buffer against volatile fuel markets.

“Michigan needs to become more energy independent. Renewable energy allows us to generate affordable power by taking advantage of our manufacturing expertise in this growing area of the global economy,” said Douglas Jester, an energy consultant with 5 Lakes Energy. “Michigan leads the country in clean energy patents. Proposal 3 will help us turn innovative ideas into the new companies of tomorrow.”

The full report is available at:
http://environmentalcouncil.org/mecReports/25by2025-ImpactonUtilityRates.pdf

http://www.environmentalcouncil.org/newsroom/pressRelease.php?x=96

Proposal 3 in the November election – would cost an average of 50 cents per month for residential ratepayers between 2015 and 2025.
Logged
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
John Stuart Mill

Willful ignorance, PaTROLLing, bullying, dishonesty, and hypocrisy are among the traits that are common amongst those that espouse the Republican/Conservative/Tea Party ideology.

A non-response doesn't mean you've won, it merely means the obnoxious, illiterate, right-wing morons have taken too much of my time already.
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 ... 13   Go Up