MonroeTalks.com > Categories > Politics and Government > Proposal 4


Poll

Proposal 4 as written

Yes
- 3 (21.4%)
No
- 11 (78.6%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Voting closed: November 02, 2012, 03:31:01 AM


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Author Topic: Proposal 4  (Read 3740 times)

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Frenchfry

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Re: Proposal 4
« Reply #90 on: October 08, 2012, 04:37:00 PM »

Why would MMH want to recreate this?

http://www.medicare.gov/homehealthcompare/search.aspx
Thanks for inadvertently proving your fellow rightie is a liar.
But as for your example....you made this earlier admission:
I know a blind individual that lives alone.   He needs assistance with cleaning and bills.   Why should he pay for Certified Nursing Assistant?   Not all home care is medical related.
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"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
John Stuart Mill

Willful ignorance, PaTROLLing, bullying, dishonesty, and hypocrisy are among the traits that are common amongst those that espouse the Republican/Conservative/Tea Party ideology.

A non-response doesn't mean you've won, it merely means the obnoxious, illiterate, right-wing morons have taken too much of my time already.

excelsior

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Re: Proposal 4
« Reply #91 on: October 08, 2012, 07:37:19 PM »

Thanks for inadvertently proving your fellow rightie is a liar.
But as for your example....you made this earlier admission:


I do not understand your point.

Medicare provides services for the disabled.  Medicare has a search engine to locate screened providers.

http://www.medicare.gov/homehealthcompare/search.aspx
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"The beginning of wisdom is a definition of terms." ~ Socrates

"No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude." ~ Karl Popper

"A rising tide lifts all the boats." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Frenchfry

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Re: Proposal 4
« Reply #92 on: October 08, 2012, 09:40:24 PM »

I do not understand your point.

Medicare provides services for the disabled.  Medicare has a search engine to locate screened providers.
Not all home care is medical related.
Those were YOUR words...and you're STILL not getting it?
I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
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"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
John Stuart Mill

Willful ignorance, PaTROLLing, bullying, dishonesty, and hypocrisy are among the traits that are common amongst those that espouse the Republican/Conservative/Tea Party ideology.

A non-response doesn't mean you've won, it merely means the obnoxious, illiterate, right-wing morons have taken too much of my time already.

excelsior

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Re: Proposal 4
« Reply #93 on: October 08, 2012, 10:28:05 PM »

Not all home care is medical related.
Those were YOUR words...and you're STILL not getting it?
I guess I shouldn't be surprised.


No, I still do not understand what you are attempting to communicate.   Try and use your words and not mine. 

Medicare provides non medical home aide care for the qualified disabled and you can find this type of home aide through this directory.
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"The beginning of wisdom is a definition of terms." ~ Socrates

"No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude." ~ Karl Popper

"A rising tide lifts all the boats." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Frenchfry

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Re: Proposal 4
« Reply #94 on: October 08, 2012, 11:10:04 PM »

No, I still do not understand what you are attempting to communicate.   Try and use your words and not mine. 

Medicare provides non medical home aide care for the qualified disabled and you can find this type of home aide through this directory.
From your site:

Introduction
The Home Health Compare Web site was created through the efforts of the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), an agency of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS). Home Health Compare has information about the quality of care provided by “Medicare-certified” home health agencies throughout the nation. “Medicare-certified” means the home health agency is approved by Medicare and meets certain Federal health and safety requirements.

NOTE: Medicare will not cover home health services provided by a home health agency that has not been Medicare-certified. Read more about how Medicare covers home health care.

The information in Home Health Compare should be looked at carefully. Use it with the other information you gather about home health agencies. Talk to your doctor or other health care provider about the information on Home Health Compare. Read more about finding a home health agency.

And:

What is Home Health Care?- Home Health Care includes skilled nursing care, physical therapy, occupational therapy, and speech therapy, medical social services and home health aide services. Home health agencies may also teach you (or your family or friends) how to care for yourself.

Appears the focus is on health care.

You've referenced that site many times...but it requires the services of one of the home health agencies listed... which means the additional cost of a middleman...and I'm quite sure those costs would pale in comparison to the Union dues you are so desperately trying to avoid.
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"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
John Stuart Mill

Willful ignorance, PaTROLLing, bullying, dishonesty, and hypocrisy are among the traits that are common amongst those that espouse the Republican/Conservative/Tea Party ideology.

A non-response doesn't mean you've won, it merely means the obnoxious, illiterate, right-wing morons have taken too much of my time already.

lilly

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Re: Proposal 4
« Reply #95 on: October 09, 2012, 03:35:21 AM »

Added poll
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Contestant 1: I'll take "Emotions of the Conservatives" for 1000 Alex.
Alex Trebek: These two emotions are the bane of Conservative existence.

Contestant 1: What are "empathy and compassion?"
Alex Trebek: "You're right for $1000"

excelsior

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Re: Proposal 4
« Reply #96 on: October 09, 2012, 07:46:16 AM »

From your site:

Introduction
The Home Health Compare Web site was created through the efforts of the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), an agency of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS). Home Health Compare has information about the quality of care provided by “Medicare-certified” home health agencies throughout the nation. “Medicare-certified” means the home health agency is approved by Medicare and meets certain Federal health and safety requirements.

NOTE: Medicare will not cover home health services provided by a home health agency that has not been Medicare-certified. Read more about how Medicare covers home health care.

The information in Home Health Compare should be looked at carefully. Use it with the other information you gather about home health agencies. Talk to your doctor or other health care provider about the information on Home Health Compare. Read more about finding a home health agency.

And:

What is Home Health Care?- Home Health Care includes skilled nursing care, physical therapy, occupational therapy, and speech therapy, medical social services and home health aide services. Home health agencies may also teach you (or your family or friends) how to care for yourself.

Appears the focus is on health care.

You've referenced that site many times...but it requires the services of one of the home health agencies listed... which means the additional cost of a middleman...and I'm quite sure those costs would pale in comparison to the Union dues you are so desperately trying to avoid.




http://www.medicare.gov/homehealthcompare/Resources/Glossary.aspx?toolAudiance=HHC&Language=English&TermID=0010

Home Health Aide Services

Services to help you with daily living activities (such as getting up, bathing, getting dressed, and making a meal).


Looks like we are already paying for a homecare directory doesn't it.
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"The beginning of wisdom is a definition of terms." ~ Socrates

"No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude." ~ Karl Popper

"A rising tide lifts all the boats." ~ President John F. Kennedy

lilly

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Re: Proposal 4
« Reply #97 on: October 09, 2012, 07:56:08 AM »

I do not understand your point.

Medicare provides services for the disabled.  Medicare has a search engine to locate screened providers. Agencies.

http://www.medicare.gov/homehealthcompare/search.aspx
It shows agencies, not individuals. Does this mean you want to force people to work for agencies rather than to be an independent contractor?
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Contestant 1: I'll take "Emotions of the Conservatives" for 1000 Alex.
Alex Trebek: These two emotions are the bane of Conservative existence.

Contestant 1: What are "empathy and compassion?"
Alex Trebek: "You're right for $1000"

excelsior

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Re: Proposal 4
« Reply #98 on: October 09, 2012, 08:10:03 AM »

It shows agencies, not individuals. Does this mean you want to force people to work for agencies rather than to be an independent contractor?

I would form a limited liability company (LLC) if I was an independent contractor.   What is your evidence that these companies are excluded?
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"The beginning of wisdom is a definition of terms." ~ Socrates

"No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude." ~ Karl Popper

"A rising tide lifts all the boats." ~ President John F. Kennedy

lilly

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Re: Proposal 4
« Reply #99 on: October 09, 2012, 08:41:18 AM »

I would form a limited liability company (LLC) if I was an independent contractor.   What is your evidence that these companies are excluded?
When using the site you provided, I don't even see Caring Alternatives (located on M-50) listed on there. I'm not saying that they are purposely excluded. Just saying that the list is far from complete and it would be better if it were, not to mention the other benefits that this proposal brings to the table.
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Contestant 1: I'll take "Emotions of the Conservatives" for 1000 Alex.
Alex Trebek: These two emotions are the bane of Conservative existence.

Contestant 1: What are "empathy and compassion?"
Alex Trebek: "You're right for $1000"

excelsior

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Re: Proposal 4
« Reply #100 on: October 09, 2012, 09:24:32 AM »

When using the site you provided, I don't even see Caring Alternatives (located on M-50) listed on there. I'm not saying that they are purposely excluded. Just saying that the list is far from complete and it would be better if it were, not to mention the other benefits that this proposal brings to the table.

This list is providers that are medicare approved.  The site is run by the government.    I do not see the need for various levels of government performing repetitive tasks.

These SEIU members have paid over 30 million dollars in dues.  What have these members received for this money?  I cannot find a collective agreement with the state so what value is the union delivering to it's members?

What prevents the SEIU from developing a directory of the services provided by it's members?  $30,000,000 could produce a great directory.

« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 09:43:50 AM by excelsior »
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"The beginning of wisdom is a definition of terms." ~ Socrates

"No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude." ~ Karl Popper

"A rising tide lifts all the boats." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Professor H

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Re: Proposal 4
« Reply #101 on: October 22, 2012, 09:21:39 AM »

SEIU's own website doesn't provide much more than propaganda on what they say they are doing than promoting their "members"...
No list of their own home care workers to be found...

http://www.seiuhealthcaremi.org/category/home-care/
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jbs49238

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Re: Proposal 4
« Reply #102 on: October 23, 2012, 12:58:48 AM »

I heard some poll results on the props on the radio this evening.  Right now it is NO across the board... 1-6!  One (Prop 1) was within the margin of error but the 2-6 stuff was around 60-40 or more.  Maroun is getting nowhere and just wasting his cash if the numbers on 6 were correct... about 70-30.
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Frenchfry

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Re: Proposal 4
« Reply #103 on: October 29, 2012, 02:50:01 AM »

Lots of people are trying to confuse us about Proposal 4. But it's pretty simple: it sets up a registry of trained home care workers who have passed a criminal background check so seniors and people with disabilities have access to safe home care.

Simple
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"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
John Stuart Mill

Willful ignorance, PaTROLLing, bullying, dishonesty, and hypocrisy are among the traits that are common amongst those that espouse the Republican/Conservative/Tea Party ideology.

A non-response doesn't mean you've won, it merely means the obnoxious, illiterate, right-wing morons have taken too much of my time already.

jbs49238

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Re: Proposal 4
« Reply #104 on: October 29, 2012, 07:40:04 AM »

Seniors already have access to quality caregivers through an incredible number of Michigan licensed, bonded and insured agencies who are already liable for the conduct of their employees, potentially even criminally if there is utter negligence.  FORCING these workers to be union members makes zero difference to the safety of your loved ones or the potential conduct of their caregivers.  Proposal 4 is about forcing any caregiver who is paid by someone who receives state money to be a union member.

Proposal 4 cuts against the fabric of "freedom of choice" and "freedom of association (or desire not to associate)" and is nothing but a strong armed effort by a group losing its clout and its fortunes (labor unions) to maintain their relevance and bolster its financial line... BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

Labor unions aren't winning in the court of public opinion so they are looking to deeply entrench themselves by using the constitution as a measure to ensure their continued existence, using grandma as their new pawn!

Just as much as someone should be able to CHOOSE to be a union member, they should also have every right to REFUSE.

Vote no on Proposal 4.
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