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livewire

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Re: Wal-Mart workers begin Black Friday disruptions
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2012, 08:26:49 AM »

I agree with Tiny.  All the Chinese crap at Walmart is the same damn stuff at Kmart, Meijer, Sears, Ace, Home Depot, Tractor Supply, and any other big chain.  Some are higher priced than others, some lower.

I shop at Walmart, but I shop selectively... I try to spend my money at smaller stores, but let's face it - there aren't many around any more.  I like buying my fresh meats at a local deli, or the Kroger deli... same with other foods... But most stuff is made in China, no matter where you buy it from.  Try to buy a bunch of bolts, or any hardware.  I don't care where.  Home Depot, Ace, Lowe's, Tractor Supply, they are ALL made in China.

And as far as the strikes against Walmart, yeah... go right ahead.  That worked well for Hostess.   ;D

If you're unhappy where you work, go get a job some where else.  I am so sick and tired of this entitlement attitude people have... I deserve this and that, since I've slaved at Walmart for over a year now... yeah.  Okay.   8*
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The Fuzz

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Re: Wal-Mart workers begin Black Friday disruptions
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2012, 08:53:21 AM »

I like Chinese food and women, but I try my best to stay away from their manufactured products if at all possible.  Yes, it is very difficult if not impossible for some products but I have seen the unfair labor and environmental policies they have that gives them a competitive advantage in even offsetting the transportation cost to get their products here.

Raw materials are not regulated there to assure quality (at least in the case of tooling steel), or personal safety as shown in the dog food issues and lead based paints that have hit the American market place.

I have been successful in placing hundreds of millions of dollars worth of injection molding tools right here in the US in spite of being pressured by American car companies, who have been graciously supported by our tax dollars, to meet pricing models based on low cost country pricing.  No horn tooting, but I have taken the position with many of our customers that the cost to transport the tools here that are made of inferior materials that do not hold up in high volume production, our cost of travel to administer the tool design and build, plus the hostage fees to get a tool out to sea is cost prohibitive. 
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livewire

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Re: Wal-Mart workers begin Black Friday disruptions
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2012, 09:07:28 AM »

I agree, Fuzz. 

It's sad when China can make something heavy (like bolts), SHIP IT over here, and distribute them cheaper than we can make them here. 

I say throw a bunch of huge tariffs on ALL imported goods from China, to equalize the unfair cost of production.  If the unions were to fight for something like that, I just may start supporting them.
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tnweasel

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Re: Wal-Mart workers begin Black Friday disruptions
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2012, 07:43:42 PM »

I don't particularly like shopping at Walmart partly because everyone always seems so angry when I go in there.....maybe it's me but there is always yelling and rude attitudes....so I prefer to shop smaller stores.....even is smaller is Target. ....I often shop at White's sewing center for things I might not find anywhere else....or Ace ......simple fact.....shopping at Walmart is just not an enjoyable experience....
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Frenchfry

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Re: Wal-Mart workers begin Black Friday disruptions
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2012, 02:08:43 PM »

Walmart Fires Employees Who Smashed iPads on Video
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2411992,00.asp
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Professor H

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Re: Wal-Mart workers begin Black Friday disruptions
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2012, 02:58:04 PM »

I agree, Fuzz. 

It's sad when China can make something heavy (like bolts), SHIP IT over here, and distribute them cheaper than we can make them here. 

I say throw a bunch of huge tariffs on ALL imported goods from China, to equalize the unfair cost of production.  If the unions were to fight for something like that, I just may start supporting them.

With the wage deflation that is currently occurring in some occupations and areas - this may be possible,   Heaven forbid we start up industries to meet our own needs...and compete with foreign governments and their subsidized businesses.
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Forsythia

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Re: Wal-Mart workers begin Black Friday disruptions
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2012, 03:04:11 PM »

I agree with Tiny.  All the Chinese crap at Walmart is the same damn stuff at Kmart, Meijer, Sears, Ace, Home Depot, Tractor Supply, and any other big chain.  Some are higher priced than others, some lower.

I shop at Walmart, but I shop selectively... I try to spend my money at smaller stores, but let's face it - there aren't many around any more.  I like buying my fresh meats at a local deli, or the Kroger deli... same with other foods... But most stuff is made in China, no matter where you buy it from.  Try to buy a bunch of bolts, or any hardware.  I don't care where.  Home Depot, Ace, Lowe's, Tractor Supply, they are ALL made in China.

And as far as the strikes against Walmart, yeah... go right ahead.  That worked well for Hostess.   ;D

If you're unhappy where you work, go get a job some where else.  I am so sick and tired of this entitlement attitude people have... I deserve this and that, since I've slaved at Walmart for over a year now... yeah.  Okay.   8*


Wow live you're really showing your true colors there.  Do you know the conditions these people work in?  Do you know how horribly they get paid?  You're against workers protesting against a company for better wages and benefits.  That's just horrible.  I'm sorry but the people are speaking up, and your ultra conservative idea of "you should feel lucky to have a job" isn't working any more.  Workers are demanded to be treated like people instead of indentured servants.  I would HATE to work for someone like you.

You want to see how Walmart is treating their employees?  Read this article and tell me there's fair treatment.  http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/11/17/walmart-tricks-police-handcuff-black-friday-strike-organizer/

Quote
Rivera visited the store where he used to work on Wednesday to talk with some former colleagues about the Black Friday strike. While Rivera paused to sip water from a fountain, police rushed up behind him without warning, grabbed his arms, and wrested him into handcuffs, Josh Eidelson reports for The Nation. The false arrest was a direct result of Walmart management falsely reporting to police that Rivera had signed a trespassing warning preventing him from returning to the premises.



Do you know why there are so few small businesses today?  It's because of Walmart.  It destroys local economies and shuts down local businesses.  People don't understand the atrocities in labor Walmart has committed.  They don't understand the extremely negative impact that it has on the local economy.
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Forsythia

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Re: Wal-Mart workers begin Black Friday disruptions
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2012, 03:08:14 PM »

Hum . . . OK . . so just like my buddy . . they chose to take those jobs - don't like it - leave, simple as that.

Just because the military isn't allowed to unionize doesn't mean other people should keep from protesting for better wages and benefits

Quote
No you don't but please don't compare somone not placing there life in danger in a war zone with someone that is.

Obviously you have never seen a black friday sale. 

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Appreciate via a military discount is not special treatment it is appreciate for the risk that someone agreed to accept.  BTW - he did not want to leave the military . . he believes in what he does and accepts the consequences.

My brother looked at it as special treatment for a job.  That's all he ever looked at it as, and that's all he considers it now.  It was a job he did and that's it.  He never believed in what the military was doing, especially after Sept 11.  He actually felt ashamed to be part of that debacle.  He actually told me a story where whenever he was off ship in foreign countries he would put on a Canadian accent so people thought he was a tourist instead of in the military.
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Ignorance is only blissful for the ignorant.  The rest of us have to put up with you idiots.

"Prayer is nothing more than bargain basement anger." A. LaVey


"A christian telling an atheist he is going to hell is about as scary as a small child telling an adult they won't get any presents from santa." - R. Gervais

Frenchfry

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Re: Wal-Mart workers begin Black Friday disruptions
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2012, 03:17:33 PM »

With the wage deflation that is currently occurring in some occupations and areas - this may be possible,   Heaven forbid we start up industries to meet our own needs...and compete with foreign governments and their subsidized businesses.
Parity is impossible. The USA cannot compete..especially against countries that offer socialized healthcare. The middle class has almost vanished in America.
Quote
Income inequality has soared to the highest levels since the Great Depression and the recession has done little to reverse the trend, with the top 1 percent of earners taking 93 percent of the income gains in the first full year of the recovery, The New York Times reported in October 2012.
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/i/income/income_inequality/index.html
This is interesting:
Latin America - Model for Growing Middle Class?

"Rapid economic growth and more inclusive social policies in Latin America in the last decade have lifted 50 million people into the middle class, which for the first time rivals the poor in number, the World Bank said in a study on Tuesday.

"Most countries in the region are on their way to becoming middle-class societies; this represents a historic change," World Bank President Jim Yong Kim told reporters.

Rising income levels have also created a 'vulnerable' class, which at 38 percent makes up the largest income group. These people hover just above poverty, living on a daily income between $4 and $10 per person."*

Cenk Uygur analyzes how Latin American countries ruled by extreme leftists could have succeeded in adding 50 million people to the middle class. Was it commodities, a system with more credence than previously believed, statistics mainly focusing on Brazil, or something else? Dave Koller weighs in.

Latin America - Model for Growing Middle Class?
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Forsythia

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Re: Wal-Mart workers begin Black Friday disruptions
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2012, 03:28:34 PM »

Here's a great article I found.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2011/12/14/six-waltons-have-more-wealth-than-the-bottom-30-of-americans/

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“In 2007, according to the labor economist Sylvia Allegretto, the six Walton family members on the Forbes 400 had a net worth equal to the bottom 30 percent of all Americans.


That's the COMBINED wealth of the bottom 30%.
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Ignorance is only blissful for the ignorant.  The rest of us have to put up with you idiots.

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Will Sweat

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Re: Wal-Mart workers begin Black Friday disruptions
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2012, 04:32:29 PM »

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livewire

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Re: Wal-Mart workers begin Black Friday disruptions
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2012, 08:39:20 PM »

Wow live you're really showing your true colors there.  Do you know the conditions these people work in?  Do you know how horribly they get paid?  You're against workers protesting against a company for better wages and benefits.  That's just horrible.  I'm sorry but the people are speaking up, and your ultra conservative idea of "you should feel lucky to have a job" isn't working any more.  Workers are demanded to be treated like people instead of indentured servants.  I would HATE to work for someone like you.

For your information, my employees are quite happy.  They all have stayed with me for many years.  They aren't just workers - they are a vital part of the business, and they are treated with the utmost respect.

Don't worry.  You don't have to concern yourself about working for me.  Never happen.

So, how horribly do Walmart workers get paid?  Your article didn't say. 

What horrible conditions are they forced to work in?  Your article didn't say.

If they are SOOOO unhappy working for Walmart, why don't they quit, and work somewhere else?
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ell

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Re: Wal-Mart workers begin Black Friday disruptions
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2012, 09:18:38 PM »


I say throw a bunch of huge tariffs on ALL imported goods from China, to equalize the unfair cost of production.  If the unions were to fight for something like that, I just may start supporting them.

live, the unions have been complaining about those very things for years.  Studies show the American worker (and no, not just union workers) are more productive and put in more time on the job than most other workers outside of our borders.  American goods have almost always been greeted with huge tariffs by countries to protect their own manufacturing base.  The U.S. doesn't ever seem to want to reciprocate.  One wonders why the manufacturers don't go after higher tariffs on imported goods as it sure seems like it would be in their best interest.

Other added costs American manufacturing has versus, say China, are the environmental and safety regulations that they deal with.  And from working in the industrial sector for over 30 years, I'm damn glad that those regulations are in place.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 09:24:18 PM by ell »
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Will Sweat

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Re: Wal-Mart workers begin Black Friday disruptions
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2012, 09:27:52 PM »

Just because the military isn't allowed to unionize doesn't mean other people should keep from protesting for better wages and benefits

Agreed.  I don't believe I said they lack that right at all.  However, in exercising that right there can be consequences and provided they are willing to accept them then - woo-haa!  Go For It!

Obviously you have never seen a black friday sale. 

Sure I have and I know that it does not compare to anything thing that our troops are going through at this moment in Afghanistan. 

My brother looked at it as special treatment for a job.  That's all he ever looked at it as, and that's all he considers it now.  It was a job he did and that's it.  He never believed in what the military was doing, especially after Sept 11.  He actually felt ashamed to be part of that debacle.  He actually told me a story where whenever he was off ship in foreign countries he would put on a Canadian accent so people thought he was a tourist instead of in the military.

It is too bad that he feels that way - the camaraderie with groups like the American Legion, Am-Vets, VFW, VVA and so on are wonderful and these folks are a terrific asset to our community.  I don't understand how one would not believe in the Military but would enlist anyhow.  There must have been a reason - GI Bill or something.  My opinion on anyone that would be to ashamed to admit they were an American . . . well, I will keep that to myself as I thank him for his service. 
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Tiny

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Re: Wal-Mart workers begin Black Friday disruptions
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2012, 10:24:42 PM »

Why just pick on Walmart?

As the old saying goes, an apple a day keeps the doctor away.

But not when the “apple” is Apple Inc., maker of ubiquitous consumer electronics products such as the iPhone, iPod and iPad.

Despite its iConic stature, Apple is a giant multinational corporation that rakes in unfathomable profits while the factory workers in China who make its signature products are subjected to inhumane working conditions.

Take action with our partners at SumOfUs to demand that Apple improve working conditions at its overseas factories.

Here are just a few reported examples of working conditions at Foxconn, one of Apple’s largest Chinese suppliers:

•Explosions at two different iPad factories involving inadequately ventilated combustible aluminum dust killed four workers and injured 77 others.
•University students have been compelled to work 12-hour shifts assembling iPhones in the guise of “internships.”
•Workers are packed into company dorms where as many as 20 are forced to share a three-room apartment.
•So many workers have jumped to their deaths at its facilities that the company has installed suicide-prevention netting on some buildings.
Apple is currently the most valuable publicly traded corporation on Earth, with an estimated market capitalization of $574 billion — more than the upstanding likes of Exxon Mobil, Walmart and General Electric.

Apple can afford to make its products ethically. What’s more, it is so large that if it leads the way, it could enhance standards throughout the manufacturing sector in China and elsewhere.

According to one former Apple executive quoted in a January 25, 2012, article in The New York Times, “suppliers would change everything tomorrow if Apple told them they didn’t have another choice.”

Earlier this year, Apple promised to improve working conditions, raise wages and put an end to involuntary labor. But the company has not followed through on those promises.

Sign SumOfUs’ petition urging Apple to produce the iPhone and other products ethically.

There’s no excuse for the world’s largest company — and one that benefits from a largely undeserved progressive reputation — to permit toxic working conditions, require rampant and exploitive overtime, and overlook a veritable epidemic of worker suicides.

Join me in taking action today.
     
        Sincerely,

Robert Weissman
President, Public Citizen     
 
© 2012 Public Citizen • 1600 20th Street, NW / Washington, D.C. 20009 •


 
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