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livewire

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Re: Fiscal Cliff
« Reply #240 on: January 21, 2013, 01:11:00 AM »


I went back to page 13 and still saw no question, but hey, I am just stupid according to you anyway so what does that prove.
See how easy it is?  I make a grammar error and everything I said is wrong per your excellent logical skills.  You win again.

I asked him the question only 16 hours ago, duck.
I asked it at least twice. I'm sorry you missed it.  Oh well.

And I never called you stupid.

Now, if you really want to continue your ranting and whining, go right ahead.

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lilly

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Re: Fiscal Cliff
« Reply #241 on: January 21, 2013, 01:26:59 AM »

Forbes Magazine nails it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonynitti/2013/01/14/dear-america-your-higher-payroll-taxes-are-not-the-result-of-a-tax-increase/



The moral of the story is this: I have no idea if the payroll tax cut should or shouldn’t have been further extended beyond 2012. That’s a matter of policy on which I am not fit to opine. Logic tells me, however, that it’s rather silly to react to the expiration of a temporary tax cut by calling it a “tax increase” and blaming the very person who enacted the cut in the first place.
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Re: Fiscal Cliff
« Reply #242 on: January 21, 2013, 02:36:44 PM »

You make a lot of assumptions.

Let me see - I started my statement by saying this was an argument I couldn't win.  What part of that didn't you understand?  Why can't I win?  Because since January of 1937 taxes have been collected, promises made, and the population was taught how to depend on it.  That is 76 years.  Generations.  No one is around that can tell you about the previous system.  I can't prove alternatives would work since this has been the model for GENERATIONS.  Hence I said up front I can't win the argument - and I stand by that. 

When is the last time you went to a nursing home? What do you know about them?

Wow Lilly.  Who is making assumptions now?  You are assuming I have never been to one and don't know what I am talking about.  Thing is I have spent time in nursing homes, both for relatives with long term care issues and short term care issues.  I saw how the care is driven by the regulations of the US government.  I have seen how the Nursing Homes want to squeeze every penny out of every patient they can.  If that means trying to force a patient to stay longer then they want to by not signing off on them going home until the day the government will quit paying - so be it.  I actually jail busted a patient out in the middle of the night when they wanted to go home - and they were READY to go home - but the home wanted them in that bed paying the bills.

How many people are there because their families can't take care of them let alone take care of themselves?

For generations families have been taught don't worry about your relatives - we the government will take care of them.  That probably means many of us will end up in one of these sad places.  There is a business to keep going after all - we will all have to do our part to keep the business model going.

How do you think these places stay in business? What makes you think the people that reside in these homes are going to miraculously be cured of Alzheimer or dementia and be able to make financial decisions for themselves?

Yep.  I am glad you are proud of the Progressive vision you have helped foster.  Better to park that Alzheimer patient in a nice home and not worry about them as you get on with your life.  After all - you need to get to work and pay taxes to keep the system afloat.  At this point I have to tell you I am personally offended by your statement.  Have you ever had a relative have Alzheimer's?  What do YOU know of it?  From your callous statement I think you are cold, hard, and cruel, or you don't know what you are talking about.

I know, it's a lot of questions. I have been to a nursing home lately. The only way they stay in business is because they collect both the medicare coverage and their residents social security checks and pay their orderlies diddly squat and try and keep staffing to as low as legally possible.

Sometimes lower.

Gee - whose fault is that Lilly?  Who created this system?  Who sets the pay tables?  Why do you defend this system that takes advantage of the patients, the employees, the tax payers - EVERYONE!  You say it is terrible - yet you defend it! 

I can tell you ONE person who doesn't want to end up in the system YOU love so much.

Your smugness makes me sick.

I can't prove that 76 years of Social Security and Medicare has hurt the fabric of our society - but it sure as heck has.

I am glad you are proud of the monstrosity that Progressives have created.  I for one am appalled by it - but it is difficult for me to show you where this country would be right now if we hadn't went down Roosevelt's rabbit hole.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
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You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

lilly

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Re: Fiscal Cliff
« Reply #243 on: January 21, 2013, 02:51:10 PM »

Social Security was created because we already had people living and dying in the street.

Yes, I do know people with alzheimers, One is a dear friend who is on the first stages of it and whom I have taken into my home because I don't want him to be shut in in a nursing facility. The other is my friends mother. She is in a nursing home because she forgot she had taken her meds and wound up taking them 3 times in one day. Luckily her grand daughter found her and got help before it was too late. She has made an amazing recovery, but her alzhiemers is too severe for her to be alone. Her family goes to visit her quite often (more than 5 times a week) but I don't believe that they would be able to afford to keep her in such a nice facility without the social security she gets from her husbands account.

I am glad that you are so happy as to where your conservative vision wants to take us.

And your smugness makes me want to vomit as well.
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Contestant 1: I'll take "Emotions of the Conservatives" for 1000 Alex.
Alex Trebek: These two emotions are the bane of Conservative existence.

Contestant 1: What are "empathy and compassion?"
Alex Trebek: "You're right for $1000"

Monroe Native

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Re: Fiscal Cliff
« Reply #244 on: January 21, 2013, 02:57:03 PM »

Social Security was created because we already had people living and dying in the street.

Yes, I do know people with alzheimers, One is a dear friend who is on the first stages of it and whom I have taken into my home because I don't want him to be shut in in a nursing facility. The other is my friends mother. She is in a nursing home because she forgot she had taken her meds and wound up taking them 3 times in one day. Luckily her grand daughter found her and got help before it was too late. She has made an amazing recovery, but her alzhiemers is too severe for her to be alone. Her family goes to visit her quite often (more than 5 times a week) but I don't believe that they would be able to afford to keep her in such a nice facility without the social security she gets from her husbands account.

I am glad that you are so happy as to where your conservative vision wants to take us.

And your smugness makes me want to vomit as well.

There are people living and dying in the streets right now.

Want to go see?

You don't even have to go to Detroit.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

Ash Williams

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Re: Fiscal Cliff
« Reply #245 on: January 21, 2013, 03:01:39 PM »

There are people living and dying in the streets right now.

Want to go see?

You don't even have to go to Detroit.

lits git rid o socal securty thin and make it hunnerds or thousends then

Grate plan

why stop

make it millions thin ya wone needa worry cuz they all be dead an not need took care uf
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lilly

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Re: Fiscal Cliff
« Reply #246 on: January 21, 2013, 03:10:09 PM »

There are people living and dying in the streets right now.

It's nice that you want to add to that number.
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Contestant 1: I'll take "Emotions of the Conservatives" for 1000 Alex.
Alex Trebek: These two emotions are the bane of Conservative existence.

Contestant 1: What are "empathy and compassion?"
Alex Trebek: "You're right for $1000"

Monroe Native

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Re: Fiscal Cliff
« Reply #247 on: January 21, 2013, 04:03:04 PM »

It's nice that you want to add to that number.


Lilly,

Since you are above insulting, calling names, etc, please show me where I said that.

Yes I know.  Only liberals care.  Only liberals are smart.  Only liberals understand.

Can you explain one thing to me?

Johnson's great society has been going on for 50 plus years now.

Please explain to me Detroit MI.  Shouldn't it be a paradise of plenty?  It doesn't seem to be.

Please explain to me what went wrong.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

ducksoup

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Re: Fiscal Cliff
« Reply #248 on: January 21, 2013, 04:10:51 PM »


Lilly,

Since you are above insulting, calling names, etc, please show me where I said that.

Yes I know.  Only liberals care.  Only liberals are smart.  Only liberals understand.

Can you explain one thing to me?

Johnson's great society has been going on for 50 plus years now.

Please explain to me Detroit MI.  Shouldn't it be a paradise of plenty?  It doesn't seem to be.

Please explain to me what went wrong.

If that isn't what you were conveying with this post...
There are people living and dying in the streets right now.

Want to go see?

You don't even have to go to Detroit.

Then what was your point?

Surely someone such as yourself can explain to us that are always wrong what it was you really meant.
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Monroe Native

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Re: Fiscal Cliff
« Reply #249 on: January 21, 2013, 04:19:31 PM »

Then what was your point?

It seems as if some posters think that we are much better off due to numerous social programs that are out there.

I on the other hand think we are worse off.  When I look at Detroit, Toledo, parts of Monroe, I see people suffering and in despair.  But how is this if the social programs are so effective?

And to bring it back to the main point of the topic - the country is going over the fiscal cliff trying to maintain all of their promises of the last 50-75 years.

Now - I think that personal freedom and liberty is the solution.  Others see that as dooming people to poverty and despair.

Duck - my question is who is right?  Do you have an answer for that one?  Care to talk about it?
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

ducksoup

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Re: Fiscal Cliff
« Reply #250 on: January 21, 2013, 04:40:54 PM »

It seems as if some posters think that we are much better off due to numerous social programs that are out there.

That would be a true statement.

Quote
I on the other hand think we are worse off.  When I look at Detroit, Toledo, parts of Monroe, I see people suffering and in despair.  But how is this if the social programs are so effective?

Again you are correct there are many suffering even with the programs.  Many are not a part of those programs as well.  I believe the answer to your question is easy enough, just remove them from the equation and see the devastation that results.

Quote
And to bring it back to the main point of the topic - the country is going over the fiscal cliff trying to maintain all of their promises of the last 50-75 years.

So it would seem that you are in the camp of “programs that help the middle class and poor are bad” while those that spend money on the rich are good.  Military spending that is more than half each year’s budgets is good, yet programs that are less than 1% of the same budget are the whole problem.  Or are you going to say that it is both even though you only push one?

Quote
Now - I think that personal freedom and liberty is the solution.

A very good thing.  Except I believe you meant “personal responsibility” rather than “liberty” since it is what is fitting to the subject. It would also be a companion of either of those to make a living wage for a day’s work.  Sadly that is a component very lacking.

Quote
Others see that as dooming people to poverty and despair.

If you say so.  I am not sure why you include it as your thoughts.

Quote
Duck - my question is who is right?  Do you have an answer for that one?  Care to talk about it?

Okay, but if that was your question then why didn’t you say so?

What is the value of a man?

Should a man work for less than his value?

When the real choice is a low paying job or an even lower paying job then how does that man live with respect for his work?  It isn’t just one man though, is it.  It is millions of people that struggle daily to survive, let alone live.  Why are they not allowed the respect of being paid wages that give them respect?

Why do we have social security?  To take care of those that are no longer able to sustain their own lives with at least some dignity.  The contra argument is that everyone should work until death, which invariably is far earlier if work is difficult or impossible.

Unfortunately, it is difficult to separate out the portions of your rant.  Do you just mean old people, or are you meaning those that are younger but have disabilities hampering normal work?
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ducksoup

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Re: Fiscal Cliff
« Reply #251 on: January 21, 2013, 04:48:12 PM »

There are people living and dying in the streets right now.

Want to go see?

You don't even have to go to Detroit.

Sorry, rereading your commentary still does not lead me to the question you say you asked of which is right....

Guess you proved me stupid once again.
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Monroe Native

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Re: Fiscal Cliff
« Reply #252 on: January 21, 2013, 05:22:55 PM »

Sorry, rereading your commentary still does not lead me to the question you say you asked of which is right....

Guess you proved me stupid once again.

I see you are still looking for a fight.

Tell you what Duck - I'm not going to take the bait.

Have a good night.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

lilly

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Re: Fiscal Cliff
« Reply #253 on: January 22, 2013, 02:26:39 AM »


Lilly,

Since you are above insulting, calling names, etc, please show me where I said that.

Yes I know.  Only liberals care.  Only liberals are smart.  Only liberals understand.

Can you explain one thing to me?

Johnson's great society has been going on for 50 plus years now.

Please explain to me Detroit MI.  Shouldn't it be a paradise of plenty?  It doesn't seem to be.

Please explain to me what went wrong.

Yes, I know. With all the free money laying around, like social security disability, welfare, and unemployment benefits, and food stamps these people should be living large!

I mean according to live, you only have to work 90 days and then you can quit and get unemployment for 2 years.

And according to you, you can just walk right into the Social Security office and they will hand you a disability check.

No questions asked!

I mean, all you have to do is hold your hand out and someone will stop by and put money in it.

Well, that's what you conservatives would have us believe. So therefore, these should be the first things to be cut. Because those people in the street obviously want to be there, otherwise they would have signed up for all that free money a long time ago.

Right?

By all means, lets get rid of social security, end welfare, eliminate food stamps, because we are just coddling those people.

It didn't go wrong because we have shuttled all our money to the military.

I mean in 1964 we spent $300B (in today's dollars) on the military, and we had to deal with Russia AND China. Today, we spend $700B on the military, and have such dynamic diehards like Iraq and North Korea to deal with?

But no, we have to get rid of all of these expensive "entitlement" programs.
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Contestant 1: I'll take "Emotions of the Conservatives" for 1000 Alex.
Alex Trebek: These two emotions are the bane of Conservative existence.

Contestant 1: What are "empathy and compassion?"
Alex Trebek: "You're right for $1000"

livewire

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Re: Fiscal Cliff
« Reply #254 on: January 22, 2013, 07:21:32 AM »

Yes, I know. With all the free money laying around, like social security disability, welfare, and unemployment benefits, and food stamps these people should be living large!

I mean according to live, you only have to work 90 days and then you can quit and get unemployment for 2 years.



I never said that and you know it. 

Why do you continue to attack me, dude?  You realize I'm not going to let you get away with it, don't you? 

Hell, you attacked me when you were responding to someone ELSE!  Get a f**king life, will ya? 

Troll!!!  TOS violator!!!   8*

I'm not afraid to admit when I don't know something, and this is no different.  At one time, if I remember correctly, you could work for 90 days, and be eligible for unemployment for a certain period of time - NOT TWO YEARS!  As I said, I didn't know because I never had a claim, and I've never tried to get unemployment benefits.  Sounds like you have a lot of experience in that area, so from now on, I will defer to your expertise when it comes to not working.

Typical liberal.  You have to deliberately lie, defame and put down other people that don't agree with you, so you can try to convince people that you're right.


THIS is what I said originally:

Yes.  I believe you have to work for 90 days for a company before you are eligible for unemployment benefits.  I've never had a claim, so I don't know without looking it up.
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The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
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