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[Monroe Native]

Not sure if it is still like this in Europe or not, but I had a German work buddy who told me when he got to be a sophomore in high school they offered two paths for the last 2 years......technical/vocational, or college prep.

It appears we are hitting that fork in the road after high school with technical certificates at community colleges, or on to college.

Fuzz,

Germany does have a tech / vocational and college prep route in their schools.

They steer you into the route depending on what they think the test scores / aptitude of the student is.

I've been visiting local high schools and looking at their programs.  I was pretty astounded on how many mandatory credits there are to get a diploma.  To me the mandatory classes left far fewer options on going either a vocational route or a college prep route then there used to be.  There are far fewer opportunities to select electives then there used to be.

I for one blame the Federal Government and Lansing...

[Monique]

High school needs to focus on making sure the students can actually read, write, spell, and do math at an adult level. Every graduate should be *able* to get into some college somewhere if they choose.

The vo-tech programs are too expensive to sustain. If someone wants to be a welder or mechanic or something like that, they can go to a tech school after graduation. It shouldn't be up to public schools to teach those skills, IMO.

[Monroe Native]

High school needs to focus on making sure the students can actually read, write, spell, and do math at an adult level. Every graduate should be *able* to get into some college somewhere if they choose.

The vo-tech programs are too expensive to sustain. If someone wants to be a welder or mechanic or something like that, they can go to a tech school after graduation. It shouldn't be up to public schools to teach those skills, IMO.

That is what they have dumbed High School down to, and yet they are still failing to pull of the Utopian goal - like most Liberal goals fail.

Used to be you had to take so many Math classes, so many English, so many Social Studies - but your skill level determined which ones you could take.

Now you HAVE to take the idiot level course - unless you test out of them.  The idiot level course is taught to the level of the lowest idiot in the class.

College is not made for everyone. 

Liberals are doing for High School and College what they did for little league baseball.  Everyone gets to play.  Everyone gets to hit.  Lets not count outs.  Lets not make JR feel bad because he has no talent.

The Reason a High School Degree is worthless now?  Idiot Liberal policies.

The Reason a Bachelors Degree is the new High School Degree?  Idiot Liberal policies.

Everyone doesn't have the talents to get a College degree.  We are doing them a disservice by not teaching them a skill in a vocational school.

Just my opinion.

The Deceleration of Independence says that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."  It doesn't guarantee it.  Not everyone is born with the ability to get a College Degree.  Those that are shouldn't be held back.  Those that aren't should be taught skills so they can maximize their abilities.

[Monique]

And that is your "idiot" opinion. (You get what you give).

LOL, so you want the taxpayers to pay to teach kids how to weld? You want the public schools to maintain various expensive shops and garages just so they can teach Junior a trade? How socialistic!! You wouldn't rather he pull himself up by his bootstraps and pay to go to a corporate for-profit school instead??

 

[Monroe Native]

And that is your "idiot" opinion. (You get what you give).

LOL, so you want the taxpayers to pay to teach kids how to weld? You want the public schools to maintain various expensive shops and garages just so they can teach Junior a trade? How socialistic!! You wouldn't rather he pull himself up by his bootstraps and pay to go to a corporate for-profit school instead??

 

Thanks for the name calling.  I appreciate it. 

We are paying for 13 years of public education.

I want people to get the most out of those 13 years that they can.

Perhaps 2 years of welding classes might get someone a job - while the 2 years of foreign language instruction might do nothing for them.

Once you can read, write, and do math to a certain level I have NO problems with teaching someone a skill that will allow them to get a job, have a career, make money, pay taxes, raise a family, etc.

I am not arrogant enough to dictate the course someone must take in their life.  If they want a vocational education I have no problem with supplying them with that.

[livewire]

When I was in high school, I took metal shop and wood shop, as well as four years of English, and four years of math, including Calculus, and four years of science.  There was also Auto Shop, and Auto Body, which I'm sorry to say I didn't take.  Not because I didn't want to, but because there just weren't enough hours in the day.  I did not take any foreign languages - they were electives, and I quite honestly didn't see the need.

The metal shop and wood shop classes I took were really great introductions to basic mechanical knowledge, that has shaped the direction of my life.  I see no problem with having these classes (and other vocational classes) in the public school system, as electives, IN ADDITION TO the standard reading, writing and arithmetic classes.  Not offering them is a huge mistake, in my opinion.

[Collegekid]

You just about can't get a good job of any kind without that piece of paper (and all the long hours and work behind it).

That may be the "rule" but it's not true. My father is a high school drop out (in the 9th grade no less), and he has an excellent job, makes more money than I do even with all of my pieces of paper.

That's not to say I don't do ok, just that he has an excellent job, been there about 10 years, and he had an excellent job before that as well.

[Collegekid]

High school needs to focus on making sure the students can actually read, write, spell, and do math at an adult level. Every graduate should be *able* to get into some college somewhere if they choose.

The vo-tech programs are too expensive to sustain. If someone wants to be a welder or mechanic or something like that, they can go to a tech school after graduation. It shouldn't be up to public schools to teach those skills, IMO.

While I agree with most of the top part. (It's not possible to have "every" student at that level but an admirable goal.)

The bottom half is out of line. Why should tax payers give students a college prep but not a life prep? Vocational Ed programs are just as important, if not more so that prepping people for college. If you ask me, we should have MORE vocational programs in schools. Offer high school credit to seniors that get internships or apprenticeships in fields etc.

[Monique]

Seems like every time this topic comes up, I have to re-explain my point. I have already said that A GENERATION AGO, people didn't have to go to college to get a good job. Your father is a good example. Many members of my family are also in the same fortunate circumstance. My husband, too.

As the topic title mentions, a college degree is the NEW hs diploma.

And it *is* absolutely true.

[Collegekid]

Seems like every time this topic comes up, I have to re-explain my point. I have already said that A GENERATION AGO, people didn't have to go to college to get a good job. Your father is a good example. Many members of my family are also in the same fortunate circumstance. My husband, too.

As the topic title mentions, a college degree is the NEW hs diploma.

And it *is* absolutely true.

Ok, but he didn't get his great job "a generation ago" he got it within the past decade. Squarely in this generation.

I believe that we are getting to the point where the topic may be true, but we're not there yet.

[Monique]

When I was in high school, I took metal shop and wood shop, as well as four years of English, and four years of math, including Calculus, and four years of science.  There was also Auto Shop, and Auto Body, which I'm sorry to say I didn't take.  Not because I didn't want to, but because there just weren't enough hours in the day.  I did not take any foreign languages - they were electives, and I quite honestly didn't see the need.

The metal shop and wood shop classes I took were really great introductions to basic mechanical knowledge, that has shaped the direction of my life.  I see no problem with having these classes (and other vocational classes) in the public school system, as electives, IN ADDITION TO the standard reading, writing and arithmetic classes.  Not offering them is a huge mistake, in my opinion.

Except that public schools can barely function now with the drastic funding cuts and ridiculous test standards (NCLB) that the Republicans have inflicted on them. So, they should take away classes in core skills (3R's +science) but pay for 18 different kinds of shop class for the kids who aren't college material? I can hear China and Japan laughing their off!

[Monique]

Ok, but he didn't get his great job "a generation ago" he got it within the past decade. Squarely in this generation.

Perhaps because he has tons of experience already? That he started long ago?

[MM1]

This thread has gone EXACTLY as I suspected it would.   

[Monique]

This thread has gone EXACTLY as I suspected it would.   

Goddess of Premonition, too! ;0)

[MM1]

With all your touting of crowing of superior education and general "betterment" than many others, why must you insist on being so nasty?

Character is not defined or implied in any way by what is hanging on the wall, and every time you behave this way, you prove it.   



Be nice!