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LessGovernment

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and yet still, questions about 9/11 will never go away...
« on: April 04, 2013, 08:59:05 PM »

Let's hear it for the courageous Architects, Engineers, Firefighters, and Pilots who QUESTION the official story, that has led to every last abominable expansion of money printing, more special interest cronyism, and ridiculous volunteer compliance to non-authoritative persons and entities in this present age where we clamour for a benevolent dictatorship to protect us from boogey-men.

Quite the heated discussion over here( http://www.dailypaul.com/280583/the-9-11-pentagon-challenge ) ... why not ask this crowd...Did a 757 American Airlines passenger aircraft really hit the Pentagon on 9/11?

Things are heating up in this "last stand for freedom on Earth"...are we standing, or caving?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 09:04:33 PM by LessGovernment »
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Flanders

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Re: and yet still, questions about 9/11 will never go away...
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2013, 09:08:49 PM »

I would have to say without a doubt this was no inside job or conspiracy.  I wouldn't put it past our govt to cover up such instances as Benghazi, or control what gets put out in the media, but to call 9/11 an inside job is pretty foolish.

However, there are very interesting questions about the attack, but they are more interesting from an engineering standpoint than a foil hat standpoint.
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sammy

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Re: and yet still, questions about 9/11 will never go away...
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2013, 09:10:33 PM »

Let's hear it for the courageous Architects, Engineers, Firefighters, and Pilots who QUESTION the official story, that has led to every last abominable expansion of money printing, more special interest cronyism, and ridiculous volunteer compliance to non-authoritative persons and entities in this present age where we clamour for a benevolent dictatorship to protect us from boogey-men.

Quite the heated discussion over here( http://www.dailypaul.com/280583/the-9-11-pentagon-challenge ) ... why not ask this crowd...Did a 757 American Airlines passenger aircraft really hit the Pentagon on 9/11?

Things are heating up in this "last stand for freedom on Earth"...are we standing, or caving?

Conspiracy theorists, UNITE!
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Monroe Native

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Re: and yet still, questions about 9/11 will never go away...
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2013, 09:14:23 PM »

Sure thing.

And we didn't land on the moon, and Sandyhook was done by ATF agents.
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blue2

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Re: and yet still, questions about 9/11 will never go away...
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2013, 09:32:19 PM »

I think it is absolutely crazy to think the government is behind the 9-11 attacks or the school shootings.  People that think that need to be on a short string.
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LessGovernment

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Re: and yet still, questions about 9/11 will never go away...
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2013, 10:59:43 PM »

4 responses so far...can I get a definitive "yes" on the question, and, maybe photographic or video evidence that the tail section or wings or anything else consistent with such a massive plane was there....instead of the threats of being institutionalized for my point of view and conviction?

C'mon, you're a smart bunch; this should be EASY...read the thread linked...tell us where we're wrong; and THINK how the colonists objected to the taxes imposed upon them for the costs associated with the French/Indian war of 1754-1763, as well as how offended they were when asked to pay for the standing armies defending what they took as the Crown claimed, was done "for their benefit and protection".

Anyone see a pattern here?  Empire expanding?  Parent government does it "for us", and sticks us with the war/security bill?

If flight 77 didn't crash into the Pentagon that day, if building 7 was a controlled demolition, and so were the towers....oops...we whack-jobs might have  been right all along in our patriotic fervor and warnings.

C'mon now, let's debate the subject....
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"Wherefore governments rather depend upon men than men upon governments. Let men be good, and the government cannot be bad; if it be ill, they will cure it. But, if men be bad, let the government be ever so good, they will endeavor to warp and spoil it to their turn." - William Penn

Monroe Native

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Re: and yet still, questions about 9/11 will never go away...
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2013, 11:18:51 PM »

I'd rather debate on on how Lee Harvey Oswald possibly could have assassinated Kennedy with a POS 6.5 mm Carcano Bolt Action Rifle...

Hi quality footage of JFK Assassination


So I was in the Port of New Jersey on 9/11 - across the river.  I was with a team from Ford and Jaguar working on S Types that were in the port that had to be modified before they could be shipped.  From the port you have a decent view of that side of lower Manhattan.  I heard the first hit.  When we heard it we naturally went to a vantage point to see what was going on.  I saw the second plane on its approach - and heard it hit.  I can tell you the twin towers were hit by airliners.  I saw the towers come down and the cloud of dust over Manhattan.  That happened - trust me - I saw it - I won't ever forget that.

We got kicked out of the port by guys with guns - black guns with large magazines, and everyone was very uptight and nervous - being part of the Port Authority - same as the Authority that ran the Twin Towers they went into lockdown.  We then got kicked out of our hotel - part of the disaster protocol.  We couldn't fly back, couldn't finish our job, so we got to drive the rental cars home from NYC - and couldn't get back in for several weeks - and then we couldn't get a hotel.

So - am I part of the conspiracy?

I can also introduce you to a local fireman who went to help the search and rescue and going through the rubble.  Would you like to talk to him about what he saw?

That happened.  Now - was the US Air Force pilots on a suicide mission flying those passenger jets?  If you want to go to those lengths you will have to find someone else to have the discussion with.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
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You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

Will Sweat

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Re: and yet still, questions about 9/11 will never go away...
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2013, 08:28:12 AM »

Let's hear it for the courageous Architects, Engineers, Firefighters, and Pilots who QUESTION the official story, that has led to every last abominable expansion of money printing, more special interest cronyism, and ridiculous volunteer compliance to non-authoritative persons and entities in this present age where we clamour for a benevolent dictatorship to protect us from boogey-men.


I guess we would differ on what "courageous" means.  IMO, many of these folks have created a cottage industry selling books, videos and presenting at conferences that benefit them both financially and socially. While that is fine, I believe the real issue is that while they use science to show how this "could not have occurred" they also ignore the eyewitness testimony that places AA Flight 77 hitting the building and nearby light poles.   

Consider the old "scientific" argument that a bumble bee should be unable to fly based on the weight of the creature and the size of the wings.  Same is true with the scientific argument that a dandylion has enough tensile strength to hold the weight of an elephant.  It is one thing to do on paper something but another to do it in the "real" world. 

Quite the heated discussion over here( http://www.dailypaul.com/280583/the-9-11-pentagon-challenge ) ... why not ask this crowd...Did a 757 American Airlines passenger aircraft really hit the Pentagon on 9/11?


I did go to the link and read some if it.  Seems the writer of the article is in agreement that a plane (AA 77) did hit the Pentagon and this should be accepted as fact based upon the eyewitness accounts along with the other evidence found at the scene. 

Things are heating up in this "last stand for freedom on Earth"...are we standing, or caving?


What is the "last stand for freedom on Earth" - arguing about opinion or anecdotal evidence about an event from 12 years ago that requires one to ignore the eyewitness testimony, FAA testimony and the identification of the victims?  I don't know that I understand the meaning. 

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Flanders

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Re: and yet still, questions about 9/11 will never go away...
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2013, 08:47:33 AM »

I was wrong in using "foil hat" crowd as I believe you should always question information being fed to you and never rule out all possibilities.

That being said, no I'm not 100% 9/11 wasn't an inside job, but I am 99.99999999999% sure it wasn't.

I haven't done very much research on the subject but I'll try anyway to show why I believe this.

#1.  Logistics.  Sorry, but I just don't buy that the government could even be capable of such an operation.  The amount of inside people required to pull off such a job would be staggering and leave too much risk that one might defect or reveal the truth.  It just doesn't make sense from a "top secret" standpoint.

#2 Risk.  To pull off an attack on US by the government on such a massive public scale would be insane.  Think about what would happen if the public found this out?? It would be instant anarchy.  No way would anyone with any amount of intelligence with an agenda decide that this would be the best way go about their diabolical plan.

#1 & #2 I believe prove to me that this wasn't an "inside job".  It would be stupid and risky.  That's really all you need to know to disprove all the conspiracy theorists.

Now I will say, there are some interesting things that happened that leave me to think "hmmm.. why did that happen?"  But i'm looking for a scientific answer, not a foil hat answer. 

For example.  The architects said that the tower was built to withstand multiple aircraft hits.  But that's all theory as Will said.  Did they also figure the chimney effect of thousands of gallons of burning jet fuel inside?

Witnesses claim the airliner had no windows, was painted grey, and some camera's caught a strange attachment to the bottom of the plane.  OK, interesting, but again, in this day of camera technology, would something so obvious as not painting the jet to look like an airliner really happen??? Does anyone really believe that this so called massive inside job would happen and someone forgot to paint the plane like an AA jet???? Of course not.  Which to me, discredits all the fringe eyewitness accounts from this to hearing explosions to not seeing any bodies etc.

I could go on, maybe later.
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LessGovernment

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Re: and yet still, questions about 9/11 will never go away...
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2013, 12:53:47 AM »

Flanders, it's really not so much the "who did it" we're questioning; it's the WHAT happened, as in the questions raised by Architects, Engineers, Firefighters, and Pilots....and...folks like this retired service man...*ahem*...Major General...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0xzsbSbVUE

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"Wherefore governments rather depend upon men than men upon governments. Let men be good, and the government cannot be bad; if it be ill, they will cure it. But, if men be bad, let the government be ever so good, they will endeavor to warp and spoil it to their turn." - William Penn

Monroe Native

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Re: and yet still, questions about 9/11 will never go away...
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2013, 09:25:15 AM »

So you don't think the towers would have come down when hit by a jet full of fuel?

Is that it?

Did you not read about the type of fire retardant used on the beams on the upper floors, how it did not adhere well, how it was only rated for a fire for so long?

Have you not seen how the structure was on the outside of the building - held together with trusses attached to the superstructure?  Start losing the trusses nothing holds the outside structure together.

Also - if it was a controlled demolition why didn't you hear the charges going off - bang - wait - bang - wait - bang - which is what you generally have to do to drop it in a nice pile?

You really don't think the mass of all the floors above the damage point coupled with trusses failing at the damage point could bring down the whole structure?

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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

LessGovernment

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Re: and yet still, questions about 9/11 will never go away...
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2013, 12:27:09 PM »

"white puffs of smoke" coming out from the corners during the collapse have led some Architects, Engineers, Firefighters, and pilots to QUESTION of those were charges going off....but...back to the other matter...do you believe a 757 passenger aircraft hit the Pentagon on that day, and it there photographic and video evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that in fact, that's what happened?
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"Wherefore governments rather depend upon men than men upon governments. Let men be good, and the government cannot be bad; if it be ill, they will cure it. But, if men be bad, let the government be ever so good, they will endeavor to warp and spoil it to their turn." - William Penn

Monroe Native

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Re: and yet still, questions about 9/11 will never go away...
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2013, 12:57:35 PM »

"white puffs of smoke" coming out from the corners during the collapse have led some Architects, Engineers, Firefighters, and pilots to QUESTION of those were charges going off....but...back to the other matter...do you believe a 757 passenger aircraft hit the Pentagon on that day, and it there photographic and video evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that in fact, that's what happened?


So what happened to flight American Airlines Flight 77?

Was it a phantom flight with actors hired to act like they lost loved ones?

How bought the pictures with plane parts?  You think all that was fake too?





http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/6/67/Pentagon_Security_Camera_1.ogv/Pentagon_Security_Camera_1.ogv.360p.webm
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

Will Sweat

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Re: and yet still, questions about 9/11 will never go away...
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2013, 04:54:46 PM »

"white puffs of smoke" coming out from the corners during the collapse have led some Architects, Engineers, Firefighters, and pilots to QUESTION of those were charges going off....but...back to the other matter...do you believe a 757 passenger aircraft hit the Pentagon on that day, and it there photographic and video evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that in fact, that's what happened?


The major issue is that these "theories" jump from one to the next.  On one had the thread starts out with a link about AA Flight 77 (which again, the author of the article states he believes no evidence exist that AA Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon) then flutters to the World Trade Center. 

It isn't about what you "believe" but what you can "prove" and in this case the eyewitness testimony along with the grieving families of those who died on flight 77, including the Solicitor General Ted Olson whose wife Barbra who perished on that flight. 
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blue2

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Re: and yet still, questions about 9/11 will never go away...
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2013, 06:04:11 PM »

Like I said in earlier post,  those that want to believe that this  was all an inside job need special attention.
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