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Monroe Native

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Re: GMO's... Good or bad?
« Reply #165 on: September 09, 2015, 06:39:30 PM »

Maybe he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

 ;D
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Frenchfry

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Re: GMO's... Good or bad?
« Reply #166 on: September 09, 2015, 08:12:57 PM »

Sorry, but you're wrong.

My premise is that GMO's are NOT harmful.

Frenchfry's premise is that GMO's ARE harmful.

The statement you quoted merely says that farmers are occasionally increasing the amount of glyphosate, or using other chemicals to do the job, as some weeds become more resistant to glyphosate.  This is true.  But this is NOT proof that GMO's are harmful.  It simply means that the GMO's may need to be modified to use different chemicals (Liberty Link soybeans, for example). 

The fact that farmers HAVE GMO's in their list of options means they aren't FORCED to use the older, more harmful chemicals.  Glyphosate is very safe, by comparison to many other herbicides.


So, how many years have you been farming?  I'm just curious where you got this vast knowledge base regarding herbicide use.
No, you're wrong.
I'm merely sharing info on the subject.
You can draw your own conclusions...but before you do...make sure you understand what you've read.
Pulling the meanings out of your behind...or trolling to elicit the response you're looking for simply won't do.

A few tidbits from that article:


To date there's little credible evidence that any food grown with genetic engineering techniques is dangerous to human health," he writes. Yet the way the technology has been used—mainly, to engineer crops that can withstand herbicides—is deeply problematic, he argues.

...almost all of the herbicide-tolerant crops on the market to date have been engineered to resist a single herbicide, glyphosate. And weeds have evolved to resist that herbicide, forcing farmers to apply heavier doses and or added older, more toxic chemicals to the mix.

..."likely to increase the severity of resistant weeds" and "facilitate a significant increase in herbicide use."
http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2015/03/bittman-right-its-not-gmos-its-how-theyre-used

And then there's this:

Very low doses of some types of the herbicide Roundup can disrupt human liver cell function; the formulations' toxicity may be tied to their "inactive" ingredients rather than the active weed-killing ingredient glyphosate.

French scientists report that a number of Roundup formulations tested at very dilute concentrations can alter hormone actions and cause human liver cells to die within 24 hours of treatment.
http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/roundup-mix-more-toxic-to-liver-cells-than-glyphosate/
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This is what I see when I visit:

"Sorry Frenchfry, you are banned from posting and sending personal messages on this forum.
This ban is not set to expire."

No emails, no warnings, no communication whatsoever...just that ban

May be what happened to the other libs as well.

I guess disabling the report to admin link only on the lib side was indicative of the slanted games they play.

Enjoy your spoon-fed Faux News type right-wing echo-chamber.

Edited to add:

This is the only way to answer some of the questions posed:

1) I did nothing to warrant the banishment, it's political.

2) It's the router that's blocked but considering all the nonsense right-wing games being played by those running the site...it's just not worth it to bypass the banishment block.

3) The moron stalkers from MT contemplating a visit will be considered a threat and can expect to have a bad day if they act upon those idiotic thoughts.

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livewire

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Re: GMO's... Good or bad?
« Reply #167 on: September 09, 2015, 09:18:49 PM »

If you're that worried about your liver, don't drink the stuff, Fry. Because THAT'S the concentration it would take to do harm to internal organs. 
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livewire

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Re: GMO's... Good or bad?
« Reply #168 on: September 09, 2015, 09:20:17 PM »

So, if we do away with GM crops, and ban Roundup, what chemicals do you think farmers WILL use?
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Frenchfry

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Re: GMO's... Good or bad?
« Reply #169 on: September 10, 2015, 06:46:47 AM »

If you're that worried about your liver, don't drink the stuff, Fry. Because THAT'S the concentration it would take to do harm to internal organs.
Guess you missed this part:
Very low doses of some types of the herbicide Roundup can disrupt human liver cell function; the formulations' toxicity may be tied to their "inactive" ingredients rather than the active weed-killing ingredient glyphosate.

French scientists report that a number of Roundup formulations tested at very dilute concentrations can alter hormone actions and cause human liver cells to die within 24 hours of treatment.
http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/roundup-mix-more-toxic-to-liver-cells-than-glyphosate/
So, if we do away with GM crops, and ban Roundup, what chemicals do you think farmers WILL use?
Chemicals aren't really necessary.
Farming Without Chemicals: Age-Old Technologies Becoming State of Art
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/08/23/us/farming-without-chemicals-age-old-technologies-becoming-state-of-art.html

http://holcombfarm.org/joincsa/grownwithoutchemicals

http://www.donellameadows.org/archives/a-farm-that-thrives-without-chemicals/

http://blogs.worldwatch.org/nourishingtheplanet/five-ways-to-get-rid-of-pests-without-using-chemicals/

http://www.oeffa.org/fwc.php?sjt=fwctopics

http://rodaleinstitute.org/managing-weeds-ditching-the-chemicals/
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This is what I see when I visit:

"Sorry Frenchfry, you are banned from posting and sending personal messages on this forum.
This ban is not set to expire."

No emails, no warnings, no communication whatsoever...just that ban

May be what happened to the other libs as well.

I guess disabling the report to admin link only on the lib side was indicative of the slanted games they play.

Enjoy your spoon-fed Faux News type right-wing echo-chamber.

Edited to add:

This is the only way to answer some of the questions posed:

1) I did nothing to warrant the banishment, it's political.

2) It's the router that's blocked but considering all the nonsense right-wing games being played by those running the site...it's just not worth it to bypass the banishment block.

3) The moron stalkers from MT contemplating a visit will be considered a threat and can expect to have a bad day if they act upon those idiotic thoughts.

bumfunkegypt@live.com

livewire

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Re: GMO's... Good or bad?
« Reply #170 on: September 10, 2015, 08:20:34 AM »

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lilly

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Re: GMO's... Good or bad?
« Reply #171 on: September 10, 2015, 08:41:05 AM »

Sorry, but you're wrong.

My premise is that GMO's are NOT harmful.

Frenchfry's premise is that GMO's ARE harmful.

The statement you quoted merely says that farmers are occasionally increasing the amount of glyphosate, or using other chemicals to do the job, as some weeds become more resistant to glyphosate.  This is true.  But this is NOT proof that GMO's are harmful.  It simply means that the GMO's may need to be modified to use different chemicals (Liberty Link soybeans, for example). 

The fact that farmers HAVE GMO's in their list of options means they aren't FORCED to use the older, more harmful chemicals.  Glyphosate is very safe, by comparison to many other herbicides.


So, how many years have you been farming?  I'm just curious where you got this vast knowledge base regarding herbicide use.
So I take it you went to college and studied chemestry? Did you study botany too? Did you know that GMOs and the overuse of glyphosate are linked to the dying off of honeybees?

Oh and being as smart as you are you undoubtedly know that without honeybees we will lose more than just the honey they produce.
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livewire

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Re: GMO's... Good or bad?
« Reply #172 on: September 10, 2015, 09:04:30 AM »

So I take it you went to college and studied chemestry? Did you study botany too? Did you know that GMOs and the overuse of glyphosate are linked to the dying off of honeybees?

Oh and being as smart as you are you undoubtedly know that without honeybees we will lose more than just the honey they produce.

Yes, I do have some schooling in chemistry and botany.  I wish I had more, though.

Did you study these subjects in college?

GMO's do NOT contribute to the dying off of honeybees.  GMO's and glyphosate are not always connected, you know.  They are two totally different subjects.  Glyphosate existed for years before GM crops.

Did you know that?

Honeybee populations have been fluctuating worldwide for decades, even prior to GMO's.

Did you know that?

Honeybee populations have been linked to the reduction of the milkweed plant, and some other plants important to honeybee survival.  It has been assumed that glyphosate use has reduced the number of milkweeds, which could have contributed to a reduction in honeybee populations.  There is NO solid proof of this, however.  There is no proof that the elimination of glyphosate would stop the decrease of honeybee populations, either.  Other herbicides would be used in it's place.  There are some theories that connect the additional millions of acres of added farm land in South America to the reduction of honeybee populations, as land is clear cut and farmed.

The truth is, no one really knows why some honeybee populations are going down, while others are going up.  I have posted before that honeybee populations are indeed going UP in parts of the world.

Did you know that?

Maybe they LIKE glyphosate.  Makes them horny.   8*

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lilly

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Re: GMO's... Good or bad?
« Reply #173 on: September 10, 2015, 11:45:16 AM »

When honeybees come into contact with glyphosate, the primary active ingredient in Monsanto's Roundup herbicide, they lose their ability to eat and have a much harder time learning how to forage properly. These are among the many shock findings of a recent study published in The Journal of Experimental Biology, which for the first time demonstrates both chronic and acute effects in honeybees exposed to Roundup at real-life levels.

A combined laboratory and field analysis conducted by researchers from the University of Buenos Aires in Argentina found that Roundup exhibits harm at sub-lethal levels, meaning levels that don't necessarily kill bees but that still affect them. Using the Apis mellifera type of honeybee, which is a primary pollinator in most agricultural environments, the team looked at how bees respond to trace levels of Roundup that match what they might find in a real-world foraging situation.

Based on these field-realistic doses, exposed bees were found to have reduced sucrose sensitivity, or a lowered ability to identify and track food. Exposed bees also experienced a drop in learning performance, as well as increased difficulties smelling food and other substances. And in terms of memory retention, exposed bees fared much worse than non-exposed bees, hence the tendency of bees in a colony collapse disorder (CCD) situation not being able to find their way back to the hive.

"We found a reduced sensitivity to sucrose and learning performance for the groups chronically exposed to GLY [glyphosate] concentrations within the range of recommended doses," wrote the authors.

"Altogether, these results imply that GLY at concentrations found in agro-ecosystems due to standard spraying can reduce sensitivity to nectar reward and impair associative learning in honeybees."

Honeybees bring Roundup back to the hive, poisoning all the other bees
Indirect exposure to Roundup was also observed during the analysis, as bees were found to bring tainted nectar back to the hive, poisoning all the other bees in the process. While foraging behavior was not observed to be directly affected by bees' exposure to Roundup, the distribution of Roundup via nectar did have a cumulative effect on the entire hive's ability to function, which includes foraging.

"[W]e speculate that successful forager bees could become a source of constant inflow of nectar with GLY traces that could then be distributed among nest mates, stored in the hive and have long-term negative consequences on colony performance," concluded researchers.

A 55-year beekeeping veteran, writing for Mother Earth News, speculated back in 2010 that Roundup is a primary cause of CCD. In his report, Terrence N. Ingram explained how, for years, he observed entire bee colonies collapsing almost immediately after nearby fields were sprayed with Roundup. By the end of the spraying season, entire colonies were completely dead, he repeatedly observed.

http://www.naturalnews.com/046769_Roundup_honeybees_colony_collapse_disorder.html
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 01:58:25 PM by lilly »
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SidecarFlip

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Re: GMO's... Good or bad?
« Reply #174 on: September 10, 2015, 04:03:29 PM »

All well and good but GM's reduce the need to apply herbicides and pesticides and that inculdes glyphosate among others.....

You cannot have it both ways unlike people want to believe you can....
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SidecarFlip

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Re: GMO's... Good or bad?
« Reply #175 on: September 10, 2015, 04:05:48 PM »

Oh.

Silly me!!!!!

The frenchfry farming fanatic has all the answers.

Why don't you send those links to the farmers all around the globe.  I'm sure they will appreciate your wisdom.

MN, there are actually quite a few orgainc farmers but the price of their produced goods is substantially higher than concentional farmers....  You gotta pay to play...
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The Fuzz

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Re: GMO's... Good or bad?
« Reply #176 on: September 10, 2015, 05:03:44 PM »

I think it is possible that Kim Kardashian was genetically modified.
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SidecarFlip

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Re: GMO's... Good or bad?
« Reply #177 on: September 10, 2015, 07:01:44 PM »

I think it is possible that Kim Kardashian was genetically modified.

..........she consumed a lot of Tyson Chicken in her pre-pubescent days.....lol
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SidecarFlip

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Re: GMO's... Good or bad?
« Reply #178 on: September 10, 2015, 07:02:47 PM »

So did that female reporter at Gamrat's town hall meeting.....  just say'in.
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lilly

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Re: GMO's... Good or bad?
« Reply #179 on: September 11, 2015, 01:24:22 AM »

Oh.

Silly me!!!!!

The frenchfry farming fanatic has all the answers.

Why don't you send those links to the farmers all around the globe.  I'm sure they will appreciate your wisdom.
Denigrating someone is so much easier than having to do research and making a reasonable reply, isn't it LW?

 ST. PAUL, Aug. 20— From the ridge overlooking fields his family has tilled for 120 years, Ken Tschumper surveys the lush crops of alfalfa and corn he raised this summer without pesticides or chemical fertilizers.

When he stopped using chemicals six years ago on his 230-acre dairy farm, neighbors ridiculed Mr. Tschumper's inexpensive system of spreading manure and rotating crops to nourish his soil and repel insects, weeds and diseases. Earlier this year, though, the 37-year-old farmer from La Crescent, 140 miles south of here, added $20,000 to his savings account. Some of his critics, meanwhile, filed for bankruptcy.

''When you don't use chemicals, you become a much better observer -you're constantly evaluating conditions,'' said Mr. Tschumper. ''It verges on the artistic.'' Catnip to Ward Off Insects

Farming without chemicals, once considered a fringe movement, impractical and idealistic, has gained ground, moving closer to the mainstream of American agriculture.

Major growers in Iowa now plant rye after the corn harvest. During the winter, when the rye decomposes, natural weed-killing substances result, protecting the fields in the spring and making the use of chemical herbicides unnecessary. In California, some farmers plant catnip between rows of vegetables to drive away destructive insects.

The accelerating pace of the transition has surprised university researchers and officials at the Department of Agriculture. Until the mid-1980's, farming with little or no chemicals was considered practical only for small farmers and hobbyists who could more easily rotate crops and spend time working the land.

Now large commercial farmers are seeking alternatives to a chemical technology that on the one hand is costing billions of dollars each year and on the other yields health risks, environmental contamination and huge surpluses that drive prices down. If the movement spreads further, experts say, it could have important consequences for the farm economy, the environment and the health of farmers, consumers and rural residents
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