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Professor H

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Re: My two latest 'gripes' about the Road Commission!
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2013, 10:38:29 AM »

When I think of that area, I think of the screwing that a certain Ford dealer got.  Typical small town political BS.

Hey that area is still growing (weeds)... 
isn't that much better than having a tax base  8*

They turned on the Whitman's so fast - the dealership went under - but at least the college will have the name to remind people of what used to be.
   
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SidecarFlip

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Re: My two latest 'gripes' about the Road Commission!
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2013, 05:06:35 PM »

Hey that area is still growing (weeds)... 
isn't that much better than having a tax base  8*

They turned on the Whitman's so fast - the dealership went under - but at least the college will have the name to remind people of what used to be.
 

I'm sure the Whitman family regrets donating the land.  Here you have a generous family and a township that cares less.

Weeds sure pay taxes.....not.

That was major stupid but it's hard to expect brilliance when personal interests come into play in local politics.  Sort of like the Road Commish.
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BigRedDog

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Re: My two latest 'gripes' about the Road Commission!
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2014, 10:56:31 AM »

Just an update...

I actually posted these 'thoughts' in a couple of other threads but I guess they really belong here too!

The mower at the Telegraph Road scales was still sitting there as of late Friday afternoon so I have no reason to believe it's been moved in out of the weather...   and I have no reason to believe the one at Rauch and Dixie has been moved either.

The recent articles in the paper mentioned that tax revenue has decreased over the last few years so they can't purchase new equipment which makes it seem to me even more logical that they should be taking better care of what the already have...  not letting it set out in the weather or where it can be stripped for scrap steel :o :o :o
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Monroe Native

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Re: My two latest 'gripes' about the Road Commission!
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2014, 11:02:16 AM »

Which is why I think outsourcing makes more sense than the county buying equipment they are obviously not taking care of to be run by high dollar union labor.....

You could outsource the road maintenance, the plowing, the engineering.

All you need is a staff to administer the prioritization of the projects, handle the bids, and inspect the performance.

What we have is obviously not working.

Lets think outside the box.
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BigRedDog

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Re: My two latest 'gripes' about the Road Commission!
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2014, 11:12:57 AM »

Which is why I think outsourcing makes more sense than the county buying equipment they are obviously not taking care of to be run by high dollar union labor.....

You could outsource the road maintenance, the plowing, the engineering.

All you need is a staff to administer the prioritization of the projects, handle the bids, and inspect the performance.

What we have is obviously not working.

Lets think outside the box.

Any idea how many 'snow states' are already using a model like you propose?

Summer time mowing and maintenance and new builds would probably fit pretty good into your model...

but what happens in the winter time when you go 2 winters in a row with nothing and then get socked in like we did last week. 

Does the county pay a flat rate per winter and then the contractor makes out good for 2 years and then just runs to the courthouse and files bankruptcy as soon as the polar vortex pops up on the weather channel ??? ??? ???
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SidecarFlip

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Re: My two latest 'gripes' about the Road Commission!
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2014, 11:19:02 AM »

Which is why I think outsourcing makes more sense than the county buying equipment they are obviously not taking care of to be run by high dollar union labor.....

You could outsource the road maintenance, the plowing, the engineering.

All you need is a staff to administer the prioritization of the projects, handle the bids, and inspect the performance.

What we have is obviously not working.

Lets think outside the box.

BUT YOU CAN'T OUTSOURCE, MCRC WON'T ALLOW IT....................

Normal intellegent people might (think outside the box) but, that won't work, simply because many years ago, checks were installed (by the then hierarchy of the MCRC) that eliminates outside contractors for most all tasks (I posted about that in a previous post on the other thread, or maybe it was this one).  Again, there are rules, regulations and procedural roadblocks set in stone (written and filed in a room at the headquarters building on Telegraph Road, that eliminate or curtail outside contractors doing work on county roads and highways.

The MCRC wanted to insure that they and only the MCRC would be able to perform duties like snowplowing and basic road maintainence, unless the 'outside contractors' were acquired directly by the MCRC (like the Stoneco Loaders were this time).

That way, the MCRC has basically a 'no bid for work performed' agreement with townships on maintenance and can charge any amount they want to and adhere to the requirements and stipulations set forth in those tennents tucked away in the office (that, by the way, no one has access to except the engineering staff at the MCRC, no public access is allowed and they have never been published anywhere in any newspaper or displayed for the public to read, so no one really knows what the requirements actually are otherf than how the MCRC intreprets them.....

It's all very interesting and it's all perpetuated by your elected (County Comissioners) and now the elected Road Board (somethiong I find humorous and disdgusting at the same time....)
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Monroe Native

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Re: My two latest 'gripes' about the Road Commission!
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2014, 11:27:49 AM »

Does the county pay a flat rate per winter and then the contractor makes out good for 2 years and then just runs to the courthouse and files bankruptcy as soon as the polar vortex pops up on the weather channel ??? ??? ???

That is a good question, and there a many ways you could structure a contract.

I would think it would be a combination - so many hours of maintenance - whether that be snow removal, ditch mowing, whatever, with riders for additional time.

If you are running out of hours the County Board needs to make a decision on how to reallocate the resources - maybe a road project gets delayed a fiscal year because the plowing costs were high one winter.

I think it has been demonstrated many times now that for profit companies tend to deliver services more efficiently than governmental units can.

I just want the most return for my tax dollars.  I'd be far more willing to vote for a tax millage increase if I thought I was getting a return on what I was paying now.

I voted FOR the bridge millage in the city because I know they are being frugal and stretching the tax dollars as far as they will go.  I don't see that same situation in the county.
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Re: My two latest 'gripes' about the Road Commission!
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2014, 11:35:10 AM »

BUT YOU CAN'T OUTSOURCE, MCRC WON'T ALLOW IT....................

Normal intellegent people might (think outside the box) but, that won't work, simply because many years ago, checks were installed (by the then hierarchy of the MCRC) that eliminates outside contractors for most all tasks (I posted about that in a previous post on the other thread, or maybe it was this one).  Again, there are rules, regulations and procedural roadblocks set in stone (written and filed in a room at the headquarters building on Telegraph Road, that eliminate or curtail outside contractors doing work on county roads and highways.

The MCRC wanted to insure that they and only the MCRC would be able to perform duties like snowplowing and basic road maintainence, unless the 'outside contractors' were acquired directly by the MCRC (like the Stoneco Loaders were this time).

That way, the MCRC has basically a 'no bid for work performed' agreement with townships on maintenance and can charge any amount they want to and adhere to the requirements and stipulations set forth in those tennents tucked away in the office (that, by the way, no one has access to except the engineering staff at the MCRC, no public access is allowed and they have never been published anywhere in any newspaper or displayed for the public to read, so no one really knows what the requirements actually are otherf than how the MCRC intreprets them.....

It's all very interesting and it's all perpetuated by your elected (County Comissioners) and now the elected Road Board (somethiong I find humorous and disdgusting at the same time....)

And how did that happen Flip?

You and I both know that a special interest group wrote those rules to protect themselves.

They controlled the union, and they controlled the board.

Those rules weren't written in the interest of the Citizens of the County of Monroe.

The were written to protect a very limited number of people who are in the employ of the County of Monroe, and specifically the Monroe County Road Commission.  This happy band of workers are currently led by Professional Boxer Bronco McKart, Union Rep - fighting for himself and his.

What we need is the Scott Walker of Monroe County to **** can that list of rules and streamline the organization and make it run efficiently.

Outsourcing the functions would end the stupidity more or less immediately, and yes - that book of rules written by the union for the union would have to be thrown out for that to happen.

Until then we will get the level of service we deserve, and giving them more money would only result in more of the same.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
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You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
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BigRedDog

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Re: My two latest 'gripes' about the Road Commission!
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2014, 11:56:34 AM »

That is a good question, and there a many ways you could structure a contract.

I would think it would be a combination - so many hours of maintenance - whether that be snow removal, ditch mowing, whatever, with riders for additional time.

If you are running out of hours the County Board needs to make a decision on how to reallocate the resources - maybe a road project gets delayed a fiscal year because the plowing costs were high one winter.

I think it has been demonstrated many times now that for profit companies tend to deliver services more efficiently than governmental units can.

I just want the most return for my tax dollars.  I'd be far more willing to vote for a tax millage increase if I thought I was getting a return on what I was paying now.

I voted FOR the bridge millage in the city because I know they are being frugal and stretching the tax dollars as far as they will go.  I don't see that same situation in the county.

Again:

Quote
Any idea how many 'snow states' are already using a model like you propose?
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Monroe Native

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Re: My two latest 'gripes' about the Road Commission!
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2014, 12:00:23 PM »

Nope.  Any idea?

I do know that contractors are used to supplement road commissions and cities for snow removal.

I do know that contractors are used for road reconstruction - the city doesn't do any of their own - they just bid the work out.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
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You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
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BigRedDog

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Re: My two latest 'gripes' about the Road Commission!
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2014, 12:09:04 PM »

Nope.  Any idea?

I do know that contractors are used to supplement road commissions and cities for snow removal.

I do know that contractors are used for road reconstruction - the city doesn't do any of their own - they just bid the work out.

I'm not aware of a single one...   

I do see that it could possibly work with summer maintenance and road building but the problem I see is in the wintertime and dealing with widely varying amounts of snow from one winter to the next.
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Monroe Native

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Re: My two latest 'gripes' about the Road Commission!
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2014, 12:18:36 PM »

I'm not aware of a single one...   

I do see that it could possibly work with summer maintenance and road building but the problem I see is in the wintertime and dealing with widely varying amounts of snow from one winter to the next.

Don't you have that issue no matter what?

You have to capacitize for a certain type and number of storm events no matter who does the work.

The way we do it now you have a large amount of labor and equipment and legacy costs associated with how it is done. 

Why not capacitize with a company that can provide that services when you need it, and its their business to utilize it efficiently the rest of the time?

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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

Monroe Native

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Re: My two latest 'gripes' about the Road Commission!
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2014, 12:25:24 PM »

Think about it Dog.....

Perhaps it isn't one big contractor.

Maybe Flip contracts to clear roads A, B, C, D and E for the next 10 years.  He gets a fixed amount per year for agreeing to do it, and a variable amount per storm based on the factors of snow, drifting, fuel usage, whatever.  He has to guarantee a certain delivery of service - the road has to be passable.

He goes out and buys a tractor that he needs to farm anyway, and he has his big old blower that he has that he can mount to the front of it.  He gets a salt spreader to put on the back of it.

He isn't doing any farming in the winter....  tractor is just sitting there.....  equipment gets mounted up in the winter....

It starts snowing he takes care of his quadrant.

It doesn't have to be one giant contractor with a giant operation and lots of people sitting around.  It can be independent contractors.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

blue2

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Re: My two latest 'gripes' about the Road Commission!
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2014, 12:30:07 PM »

The MCRC's main priority is to maintain the jobs of the 40 or 50 workers they have and God knows how many supervisors.
There will still be work to be done so it's not like they can't get a job.
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Monroe Native

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Re: My two latest 'gripes' about the Road Commission!
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2014, 12:33:58 PM »

The MCRC's main priority is to maintain the jobs of the 40 or 50 workers they have and God knows how many supervisors.
There will still be work to be done so it's not like they can't get a job.

And that is the issue....

The main purpose of the MCRC is not to provide smooth, clear roads for the citizens of Monroe.

It is to provide employment and retirement benefits for X number of employees into perpetuity.

Clearly the roads are a nuisance to those individuals lifestyle.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson
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