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toobad

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Is the next Waco / Ruby Ridge about to take place?
« on: April 11, 2014, 12:20:53 PM »

http://www.infowars.com/supporters-rally-to-defend-family-facing-red-dawn-showdown-with-feds/

http://www.infowars.com/blm-rangers-brought-in-from-out-of-state-for-nevada-ranch-emergency/

http://www.infowars.com/blm-action-in-nevada-is-unconstitutional-heres-why/

I've watched both Ruby Ridge and Waco unfold. Our government storm troopers killed many innocent men, women and children. I really hope the government comes to its senses and follows its constitutional responsibilities, I don't believe it will happen though. :'(

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/tocs/a1_8_17.html

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17

"To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--

Or

Did FDR sieze all property with each States consenting during his "New Deal"? I believe the government owns all property, this is backed by the governments own documentation. See "Contracts Payable in Gold" 1933.

"The ultimate ownership of all property is in the State; individual so-called, "ownership" is only by virtue of government, i. e., law, amounting to mere user; and use must be in accordance with law and subordinate to the necessities of the State."
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BigRedDog

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Re: Is the next Waco / Ruby Ridge about to take place?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2014, 01:17:51 PM »

Our oldest daughter was born on April 19th and there have been numerous tragedies which occurred on that day since she was born.  I've often joked she was the last major 'good event' that happened on 419...

now I see they'll be celebrating '419 day' (from their area code in case you don't get it) there next weekend.  I'll have to ask the birthday girl is she's going to go down and 'celebrate' ;) ;) ;)

Too bad toobad...

I'm not going to even get into your rant today.  In fact I'm going to finish up a few more things inside and get outside and enjoy the world!!!
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toobad

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Re: Is the next Waco / Ruby Ridge about to take place?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2014, 03:20:07 PM »

You are just a joy BRD, a little naive as to the current operation our our government, but a joy none the less. ;D



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lilly

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“We provide armed response,” according to a Montana militia member named Jim Lordy. Lordy traveled to Nevada in order to support a local rancher for believes that he should not have to follow federal court orders. When he arrived there, he told a local reporter that “[w]e need guns to protect ourselves from the tyrannical government.”

Lordy belongs to a militia group called Operation Mutual Aid, which provides “[d]efense of public and private property, lives, and liberty to exercise God-given rights, seen plainly in the laws of Nature, and codified in the Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights, at the request of such parties in need of such defense,” according to a website associated with the group. Although only three militia members had arrived at the Nevada ranch by late Wednesday, when the latest reports came out, other militia groups reportedly “inundated the [rancher's] household with calls and pledges to muster at the site.”

The Oath Keepers, a right-wing law enforcement organization that warns about the government “disarm[ing] the American people” and “blockad[ing] American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps,” also announced that it will send people to support the defiant rancher.

This conflict arises out of rancher Cliven Bundy’s many years of illegally grazing his cattle on federal lands. In 1998, a federal court ordered Bundy to cease grazing his livestock on an area of federal land known as the Bunkerville Allotment, and required him to pay the federal government $200 per day per head of cattle remaining on federal lands. Around the time it issued this order, the court also commented that “[t]he government has shown commendable restraint in allowing this trespass to continue for so long without impounding Bundy’s livestock.” Fifteen years later, Bundy continued to defy this court order.

Last October, the federal government returned to court and obtained a new order, providing that “Bundy shall remove his livestock from the former Bunkerville Allotment within 45 days of the date hereof, and that the United States is entitled to seize and remove to impound any of Bundy’s cattle that remain in trespass after 45 days of the date hereof.” A third federal court order issued the same year explains that Bundy did not simply refuse to stop trespassing on federal lands — he actually expanded the range of his trespassing. According to the third order, “Bundy’s cattle have moved beyond the boundaries of the Bunkerville Allotment and are now trespassing on a broad swath of additional federal land (the “New Trespass Lands”), including public lands within the Gold Butte area that are administered by the BLM, and National Park System land within the Overton Arm and Gold Butte areas of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area.” The third order also authorizes the federal government to “impound any of Bundy’s cattle that remain in trespass.”

On Saturday of last week, the government hired wranglers to round up Bundy’s livestock. As of Wednesday, they’d impounded a total of 352 cattle. That’s when a tense standoff broke out between a group of Bundy’s supporters and federal rangers armed with stun guns and police dogs. In one video, a ranger tackles Bundy’s sister away from a moving vehicle (she later admitted that she was blocking the path of government trucks shortly before this incident). Another video shows rangers using a stun gun on a protester immediately after he kicks a police dog.

Bundy, for his part, claims that “our Constitution didn’t provide for anything like the federal government owning this land.” He’s wrong. The Constitution provides that “[t]he Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States.”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/04/11/3425659/armed-right-wing-militias-descend-on-nevada-to-help-rancher-defy-court-order/
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Monroe Native

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Re: Is the next Waco / Ruby Ridge about to take place?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2014, 07:59:55 AM »

Lilly,

I don't know who is right and who is wrong in this - but to tell you the truth seeing the benevolent actions of the Federal Government in action once again is pretty chilling.

They make the rules, they tell you where you can exercise your rights and where you can't, and they adjudicate any disputes - and they don't lose those disputes.

If this isn't an example of why each and everyone of us should fight to restore a LIMITED Federal Government each and everyday I don't know what is.

I have to agree with the Rancher - why isn't Nevada deciding what happens to this land in Nevada?  Why not the County?  Why is this matter a Federal matter to begin with?

My answer - because they can.

I can't help but wonder if this whole thing is about eliminating cows from the planet.  They cause Global Warming!

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BigRedDog

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Re: Is the next Waco / Ruby Ridge about to take place?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2014, 09:47:14 AM »

You are just a joy BRD, a little naive as to the current operation our our government, but a joy none the less. ;D

Thanks for the 'compliment' toobad...

I think if you really knew me you'd understand that I'm not near as naive as you might think I am. 

For one I read a LOT and I've studied a LOT of history and I'm a news 'junkie' so I follow developments at all levels of government. 

What I'm not is a whiner or complainer  (well, maybe about the road commission and the Snyder holes)...  but even with those I also spend a lot of time taking action.  I am quite often making my voice heard directly to our relevant elected officials at all levels.  I'm very involved in my work related political issues and actually both contribute personally plus work diligently year 'round at raising funds to make our combined voices heard. 

I certainly appreciate that 'naive' is the worst name you'd pull out to throw at me ;) ;) ;)

I'm sure there are many people that would call me worse and I'm sure many people would also call you worse.  I certainly don't always agree with everything you have to say however I will go to great lengths to make sure you continue to have the right to say it all. 

I do strongly believe that freedom of speech is our greatest right of all ;) ;) ;)
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Professor H

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Re: Is the next Waco / Ruby Ridge about to take place?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2014, 03:02:40 PM »


I have to agree with the Rancher - why isn't Nevada deciding what happens to this land in Nevada?  Why not the County?  Why is this matter a Federal matter to begin with?

My answer - because they can.



Isn't the ANSWER - because it it federal land?


From news reports the Feds are actually backing away, to not have the confrontation (at this point)...  and having confiscated cattle - made their point anyway

Quote
Bundy's dispute with the government began around 1993 when the bureau changed grazing rules for the 600,000-acre Gold Butte area to protect an endangered desert tortoise, CNN affiliate KLAS reported.
Bundy, who's in his 60s, cites the Constitution in asserting that the state of Nevada holds sovereignty over the charging of grazing fees and, if he owes such a fee, he would pay it only to the local government -- not to the feds.
Bundy also contends his family has been ranching in the Virgin Valley on the Nevada range since 1877 -- long before the U.S. Bureau of Land Management even existed and before the tortoise was declared endangered.
In recent days, the number of cattle rounded up on U.S. lands slowed to one or two dozen a day, according to bureau figures.
From March 5 to Friday, authorities impounded a total of 389 cattle, the Bureau of Land Management said.
Officials gathered 12 heads of cattle Friday and 25 Thursday, the bureau said.
Bundy has said he owns 500 of the more than 900 cattle that federal officials are planning to confiscate for illegal grazing, according to local media accounts, with each head worth about $1,000.
The rancher couldn't be immediately reached for comment Saturday after the feds shut down the roundup.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/12/us/nevada-rancher-rangers-cattle-showdown/?hpt=us_c2

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Hearshear

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Re: Is the next Waco / Ruby Ridge about to take place?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2014, 04:54:11 PM »

I don't blame the feds in this, this is federal land which is as much each of our lands as it is the ranchers. What should give the "trespasser" the right to use the rest of our lands for his his own purposes? Should his geographic location next to these public lands give him the right to use them as he desires.
This guy was under a court order to vacate and refused, I should hope the court approves liquidation of this "thief's" property at the rate of $200 a day per head for 15 years. Should he become destitude well then he can get a bridge card and a free phone.
When you steal from government you have stolen from all who have to work hard to pay for that government.
This man is a criminal and should be treated as such.
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eriemermaid

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Re: Is the next Waco / Ruby Ridge about to take place?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2014, 05:03:29 PM »

+1
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Monique

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Re: Is the next Waco / Ruby Ridge about to take place?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2014, 05:13:11 PM »

I don't blame the feds in this, this is federal land which is as much each of our lands as it is the ranchers. What should give the "trespasser" the right to use the rest of our lands for his his own purposes? Should his geographic location next to these public lands give him the right to use them as he desires.
This guy was under a court order to vacate and refused, I should hope the court approves liquidation of this "thief's" property at the rate of $200 a day per head for 15 years. Should he become destitute well then he can get a bridge card and a free phone.
When you steal from government you have stolen from all who have to work hard to pay for that government.
This man is a criminal and should be treated as such.
Well said!

He's been brazenly stealing from the government and the tax payers, basically giving them the finger and doing as he pleases. He is a criminal.
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Monroe Native

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Re: Is the next Waco / Ruby Ridge about to take place?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2014, 05:18:04 PM »

Generally I would agree with everyone saying he was trespassing on public land, but from what I've read his family has been grazing that property for generations - predating the Bureau of Land Management deciding it WAS Federal Land - actually predating the Bureau of Land Management itself.

Remember the Old Wild West?

Cattle Drives?

Cowboys?

This bunch would appear to be some of what is left of that tradition.

So - IF they predate the "Federalization" of the land - then I sympathize with them.

I guess they can just go on Public Assistance. 

Whats the big deal if they can't make a living they way they have been, the way their parents did, grandparents, great grandparents.......... etc etc etc  Right?

A Federal Bureaucrat decided it was Federal Land for whatever reason, and a Federal Court did what Federal Courts do and backed up the Federal Bureaucrat. 

Screw them!

This is exactly what you get when the Federal Government gets too large.  This is why I want a LIMITED Federal Government.  Keep it at the State and Local level - exactly what the Rancher is arguing for coincidentally.

We could be next.  Just saying!
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Hearshear

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Re: Is the next Waco / Ruby Ridge about to take place?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2014, 05:36:46 PM »

Look it's pretty simple. My family was in Monroe long before Michigan was a state "yet I don't call myself native, only the Indians are native" and at that time most of the land was not privatly owned as it is now. I have no doubt that some of my ancestors engaged in inappropriate land use with the publics land. With that being said I infer no rights to use your land or any public land in a way that is illegal and prohibited by law. If my ancestors did it how does that make it OK.
20 years from now if you catch a kid running a meth lab and he claims his dad did it before him does that provide for an immediate exoneration.
When my father was a kid you walk from farm to farm pheasant hunting and nobody would say anything, does that give me the right to do it today.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 05:49:24 PM by Hearshear »
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Monroe Native

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Re: Is the next Waco / Ruby Ridge about to take place?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2014, 05:52:06 PM »

Look it's pretty simple. My family was in Monroe long before Michigan was a state "yet I don't call myself native, only the Indians are native" and at that time most of the land was not privatly owned as it is now. I have no doubt that some of my ancestors engaged in inappropriate land use with the publics land. With that being said I infer no rights to use your land or any public land in a way that is illegal and prohibited by law. If my ancestors did it how does that make it OK.
20 years from now if you catch a kid running a method lab and he claims his dad did it before him does that provide for an immediate exoneration.
When my father was a kid you walk from farm to farm pheasant hunting and now body would say anything, does that give me the right to do it today.

The difference is your family / ancestors didn't maintain their use of the land through the years continuously.

Even in current Zoning Ordinances if a law is changed an existing use is generally allowed to continue as long as that use continues.  Once the use is abandoned for a period of time - called out both in the ordinance and in case law - the use is no longer permitted.

The other difference is much of the property in the West isn't in Private hands - as is the case in Michigan - 10% under Federal Management.  In Nevada 84.5% of the land is under "Federal" management.  What's Left.  Vegas and Reno?  I guess you don't get much State Management when the Feds manage 84.5% of the land area?
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

Hearshear

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Re: Is the next Waco / Ruby Ridge about to take place?
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2014, 06:09:32 PM »

I don't understand the concern here. It is federal land that puts it in federal court.
Thus far it appears to me that this man has been treated with kid gloves. He should be thankful, he should be humble, he should stop stealing from us, he needs to cease and desist.
I have to assume 85% of the land in Nevada is federally owned because no one wanted it or were willing to pay for it when it was for sale. Let's face it,  this guy has been milking our cow for free.
You are also not entitled to the same job your father had, ask a young generation of southeastern Michigan residents.
The only thing this guy is entitled to is a good square kick in the ***.
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Monroe Native

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Re: Is the next Waco / Ruby Ridge about to take place?
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2014, 06:12:05 PM »

I hope you feel the same when the Feds come for you?

Partys over!

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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson
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