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ducksoup

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Re: What are you thinking - (political version)
« Reply #600 on: September 24, 2015, 02:28:01 PM »

5 years later we are having a trial - will be interesting to see what is redacted under white house privilege - as Obama pardoned Holder's actions in that manner... 

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/09/23/us/ap-us-fast-and-furious-trial.html


I still don't get it.  I mean, fine, have a trial.  It is not that.  It is that this is just a continuation of a plan started by Bush.  Why is it that you find it bad when it was done in Obama time, but not when it started in the Bush years?
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Monroe Native

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Re: What are you thinking - (political version)
« Reply #601 on: September 24, 2015, 02:46:44 PM »

Robert Reich

I got a call this morning from an old college friend who’s been a lifelong Republican (for years we’ve kidded one another about our respective politics), who told me he had decided to leave the GOP.

“It’s become the Party of hatemongers and know-nothings,” he said. “I’m embarrassed to be one of them.”
I asked him what had tipped him over the edge.

“Everything,” he said. “Their harangues against undocumented immigrants and promises to round them up and build a wall along the southern border. Their willingness to accept charges Obama is a Muslim and not born in America; that vaccines cause autism; that global warming is a hoax.”
“Yeah,” I said. “Pretty awful.”

“But that’s not all,” he said, becoming agitated. “It’s also their knee-jerk warmongering substituting for foreign policy. Their intolerance of a woman’s right to choose, and of gays’ and lesbians’ right to marry. Their willful suppression of black votes. Their racism!”

It was as if I’d opened a sluice gate. He went on, almost shouting: “Their incessant pandering to their wealthy funders by wanting even more tax cuts for the rich and big corporations, and then lying that the benefits will “trickle-down.” Their attacks on teachers. Cuts in school budgets. Eagerness to cut school lunches for poor kids…”

“Whoa,” I stopped him. “I get it. But these aren’t all new. Why did you stay a Republican all these years?”

He was silent for a moment. “Because I admired Mark Hatfield and Nelson Rockefeller and Jacob Javits,” he said. “I supported Barry Goldwater and John McCain. They reflected my values. I kept thinking my Republican Party would come back. But now I know it’s dead. The Party is now a sinkhole of ignorance and bigotry.”

“So,” I asked with a smile in my voice, “does this mean you’re coming over to my side?”

“No,” he said, still deeply serious. “Not yet. For now I’m an Independent.”

“But you’ll vote for a Democrat in the presidential election?”

“Absolutely. The Republicans now running are all “a-- ----s.”

His buddy was what we call a "RINO."

He thought John McCain was great?

He was already a Liberal Democrat then.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
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You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

Professor H

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Re: What are you thinking - (political version)
« Reply #602 on: September 24, 2015, 02:49:40 PM »

I still don't get it.  I mean, fine, have a trial.  It is not that.  It is that this is just a continuation of a plan started by Bush.  Why is it that you find it bad when it was done in Obama time, but not when it started in the Bush years?
Well refresh my memory on how many guns were lost under the Bush plans?

The trial here is for the murder of a border patrol agent - goes to leadership and accountability of the plan that lost 1400 guns.   

You may not like it but Holder and Obama were those in Leadership at the time of this incident that is going to Trial.
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Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

ducksoup

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Re: What are you thinking - (political version)
« Reply #603 on: September 24, 2015, 02:57:34 PM »

Well refresh my memory on how many guns were lost under the Bush plans?

The trial here is for the murder of a border patrol agent - goes to leadership and accountability of the plan that lost 1400 guns.   

You may not like it but Holder and Obama were those in Leadership at the time of this incident that is going to Trial.

Gotcha.  Excuse that it started under Bush.  Only matters how you can blame.

Should give you many more days to be partisan.

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Re: What are you thinking - (political version)
« Reply #604 on: September 24, 2015, 03:04:46 PM »

Well refresh my memory on how many guns were lost under the Bush plans?

The trial here is for the murder of a border patrol agent - goes to leadership and accountability of the plan that lost 1400 guns.   

You may not like it but Holder and Obama were those in Leadership at the time of this incident that is going to Trial.

Wasn't the Mexican Government working with the Bush team - and knew what was going on, and was tracking things?

But when Holder / Obama took over they expanded the program and cut the Mexican Government out of it - resulting in the weapons promptly disappearing?
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

Professor H

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Re: What are you thinking - (political version)
« Reply #605 on: September 24, 2015, 03:13:27 PM »

Gotcha.  Excuse that it started under Bush.  Only matters how you can blame.

Should give you many more days to be partisan.



Okay and I gotcha down for blaming every future failed plan on whoever initiated it regardless of who is the manager during the actual incident...

That means the Housing crisis goes to the Dems... as Fannie Mae was Started by FDR   ;)
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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

Professor H

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Re: What are you thinking - (political version)
« Reply #606 on: September 24, 2015, 03:18:02 PM »

Wasn't the Mexican Government working with the Bush team - and knew what was going on, and was tracking things?

But when Holder / Obama took over they expanded the program and cut the Mexican Government out of it - resulting in the weapons promptly disappearing?

Shhh...   he's on a role -   

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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

ducksoup

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Re: What are you thinking - (political version)
« Reply #607 on: September 24, 2015, 03:19:07 PM »

Okay and I gotcha down for blaming every future failed plan on whoever initiated it regardless of who is the manager during the actual incident...

That means the Housing crisis goes to the Dems... as Fannie Mae was Started by FDR   ;)
I see, so that it started under Bush doesn't matter.

Okay, nothing more for me to say is there.

You want this to be about blame Obama and not much else.

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ducksoup

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Re: What are you thinking - (political version)
« Reply #608 on: September 24, 2015, 03:21:30 PM »

Shhh...   he's on a role -   




Oh, sweet.  So the difference is that Bush did it and the Mexican government was a part of it, but when Obama did it the Mexicans were no longer a part of it.

Okay, now I get it. You blame Obama for not having the Mexicans be a part of it like Bush did.

republican logic is amazing stuff.

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excelsior

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Re: What are you thinking - (political version)
« Reply #609 on: September 24, 2015, 03:33:45 PM »

Two different programs.

Review of ATF’s Project Gunrunner

https://oig.justice.gov/reports/ATF/e1101.pdf

A Review of ATF’s Operation Fast and Furious and Related Matters (REDACTED)

https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2012/s1209.pdf


_______________


Project Gunrunner (Wide Receiver)
Time:  2006
Location:  Tucson, Arizona
275 guns

What have Bush Administration officials said about Wide Receiver under their watch?

Former Bush Administration Attorney General Alberto Gonzales (Attorney General from Feb. 2005- Sept. 2007) has denied repeated interview and information requests made by CBS News. In a 2006 memo to the US Attorney's office, an ATF attorney outlined a gunwalking proposal from his agency and stated that he had "moral objections" to the idea. In an interview with CBS News, the US Attorney at the time, Paul Charlton, said he had no memory of the memo but that "I don't believe I would or ever did approve letting guns walk." However, we know the gunwalking operation proceeded anyway. (In a strange twist, Charlton is the lawyer for Brian Terry's family, but after questions about Wide Receiver, handed the lead role in the case to a partner ). Gonzales' successor, Michael Mukasey (Attorney General from Nov. 2007-Jan. 2009) has provided no public comment.
At a Senate Judiciary hearing on June 12, 2012 Holder claimed Mukasey "was briefed" on gunwalking tactics in Wide Receiver "and did nothing to stop them - nothing." When Sen. Grassley asked Holder's office to provide any evidence to back the claim, Holder retracted it saying the statement was "inadvertent."


Operation Fast and Furious
Time:  2009
Location:  Phoenix, Arizona
2,000+ guns

What is Attorney General Holder's position on what-he-knew-when?

Holder has consistently denied knowing anything about gunwalking within his agency when it was occurring. ATF is a division of Holder's Justice Department. He asked the Justice Department Inspector General to investigate in late February 2011. That investigation is ongoing. Holder has answered Congressional questions on Fast and Furious at nine hearings. On May 3, 2011 he told a Judiciary Committee hearing, "I'm not sure of the exact date, but I probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks." Yet documents show that at least ten months before the hearing, frequent memos discussing Fast and Furious were addressed to Holder. There were memos dating as far back as July 2010 to Holder from Breuer and the head of the National Drug Intelligence Center. However, the Justice Department says Holder didn't read the memos, and that any mention of Fast and Furious did not discuss the controversial gunwalking tactics. The Justice Department also said that Holder misunderstood the question at the May 3, 2011 hearing and that, while he heard of Fast and Furious much earlier than he'd stated, he meant to say that he hadn't heard specifically about any gunwalking.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-primer-on-the-fast-and-furious-scandal/
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 03:43:23 PM by excelsior »
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Professor H

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Re: What are you thinking - (political version)
« Reply #610 on: September 24, 2015, 03:35:06 PM »

I see, so that it started under Bush doesn't matter.

Okay, nothing more for me to say is there.

You want this to be about blame Obama and not much else.


That reply tells me you've not been in Management ever...

You think you can pass off responsibility to a previous person - even if you are the one in charge during the event?
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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

Professor H

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Re: What are you thinking - (political version)
« Reply #611 on: September 24, 2015, 03:36:38 PM »

Never mind that Obama shielded Holders LIES...  look a squirrel.
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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

ducksoup

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Re: What are you thinking - (political version)
« Reply #612 on: September 24, 2015, 03:48:35 PM »

That reply tells me you've not been in Management ever...

You think you can pass off responsibility to a previous person - even if you are the one in charge during the event?

Once again you cry that everything is completely different because it is democrats and excuse your republicans.

Amazing how you always excuse republicans in your zeal to attack democrats.

I am just fine with a trial.  I can wait for the result without your daily partisan spin.
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ducksoup

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Re: What are you thinking - (political version)
« Reply #613 on: September 24, 2015, 04:42:30 PM »

That “shut down the government” talk got me thinking.

It was a staple here complaining that there was no budget yet.

With the House and Senate Republican there STILL is no budget?

They are talking of passing a short term one again?

But, the republicans here were saying we needed to elect republicans to rectify that.

Hmmmmmmm.
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After one taste, you'll duck soup the rest of your life ... Groucho Marx.

blue2

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Re: What are you thinking - (political version)
« Reply #614 on: September 24, 2015, 05:19:36 PM »

Of course Obama shielded Holder.  He used him to stir up the racism.
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