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Tim Heiss

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How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« on: January 09, 2016, 12:11:00 AM »

GENESEE COUNTY, MI — Don't drink the water. That's one message Genesee County officials are pushing to residents who get their water supply from the city of Flint.

Genesee County Commissioners Brenda Clack, Jamie Curtis and Bryant Nolden, along with Genesee County Health Officer Mark Valacak, held a news conference Thursday, Oct. 1, urging residents to not drink the city's water until it is checked for lead or they have installed an approved water filter.
Don't Drink Flint's Water, County Leaders Warn Genesee County commissioners urge residents to not drink Flint's water until it is checked for lead or until they have installed an approved water filter.

The commissioners declared a public health emergency and said they are hoping their declaration will move Gov. Rick Snyder to declare a state of emergency to handle Flint's water crisis.

"This falls directly on the doorstep of the governor," said Nolden. "If we look at what happened with going to the Flint River, this falls smack-dab on the emergency manager and the governor. Now, I think it's imperative that the state step up and help us fix this problem. We're just imploring that the state actively engage and look at ways we can connect to the Detroit River. ... This is a major health situation for this entire community."

More at:

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/10/genesee_county_leaders_warn_do.html
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Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2016, 08:32:54 AM »

It's not about the water - its about the water delivery system...   

So Flint hasn't updated it's water lines in how many years?    Lead pipes delivering water were common in the 1950's and Flint is an old city...

What have other Cities done?
============================================================
How many lead service pipes are in the City of Toronto, and in what areas?

The City of Toronto had an estimated 65,000 lead water services prior to the implementation of the Lead Replacement Program in 2008. There are now an estimated 35,000 lead services remaining. Homes built before the mid-1950s may have lead water services connecting them to the water supply system. Homes of this age are typically found in the former municipalities of York, East York, Toronto, and the southern portions of Etobicoke and Scarborough. For homes built before the mid-1950s, Toronto Water assumes the water service is lead, unless our records show otherwise.
http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=55c24f058377f310VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD#WS1

The industry:
Some major U.S. cities still have 100 percent lead piping bringing water from the utilities to homes and businesses. The dissolved oxygen in the water combines with the metal at the surface (copper, zinc or lead) to form a metal oxide. This oxidation layer naturally develops through the decades to coat lead piping. When water conditions require it, water utilities also add lime or orthophosphates as a further barrier to prevent lead from getting into drinking water. When water chemistry is carefully controlled, it prevents dangerous levels of lead from entering the drinking water system from the pipes.
https://www.safeplumbing.org/health-safety/lead-in-plumbing
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Marion Berry

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Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2016, 08:43:30 AM »

An area that most people don't even know about -   but want to blame someone.

the Fed's got involved but got pushback from the "Utilities" generally owned by the vary Cities they serve


======================================================

So Why Aren't These Lead Pipes Being Replaced?

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) did initially require water utility companies to test homes for lead, and if the levels were elevated they would then have to reduce the lead contamination or replace a percentage of their lead service lines each year until the lead levels fell into acceptable ranges.

This was in 1991 (known as the 1991 Lead and Copper Rule). But the water companies fought back, and were able to derail the plan. The EPA amended the rule in 2000 to allow water companies to perform partial pipe replacements, which basically would replace the pipe running from the water main to a home's property line. If the rest of the line were to be replaced, it would be on the property owner's own dime.

Partial Pipe Replacements May Raise the Amount of Lead in Your Water – With No Warning

There have been at least 38,000 partial pipe replacements completed or planned in the United States (which would impact about 1.4 million people). There are many more voluntary replacements that are also completed during maintenance or emergency repairs. This may sound like a good thing, but the technique appears to be increasing – not decreasing -- water lead levels, at least initially. Investigative Reporting Workshop explained:

"Partial pipe replacements can physically shake loose lead fragments that have built up and laid dormant inside the pipe, pushing them into the homeowners' water, and spiking the lead levels, even where they previously were not high.

In addition, the type of partial replacement that joins old lead pipes to new copper ones, using brass fittings, 'spurs galvanic corrosion that can dramatically increase the amount of lead released into drinking water supplies,' according to research from Washington University. Similar findings have been published by researchers at the Virginia Tech and elsewhere."

You may or may not receive warning that a partial pipe replacement in your area could temporarily increase your water's lead levels; while utilities are supposed to let you know, an Investigative Reporting Workshop survey found that only one-third of notifications actually mentioned the potential for lead increase or health risks. As noted by the featured article1:

"...the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention completed a study in 2010 noting that children living in houses in Washington, D.C., where partial pipe replacements were carried out were three times as likely to have elevated levels of lead in their blood as children living in houses in which the old lead service lines remained undisturbed, or were not made of lead."

Are Water Utilities "Gaming the System"?

You probably assume that if your water contains dangerous levels of lead, you'll be notified immediately, but this is not always the case. Investigations by Marc Edwards, a professor of civil and environmental engineering at Virginia Tech, have revealed some water utilities may be "gaming the system" by cherry-picking which houses it tests in order to keep any lead problems hidden. In another tactic, water companies are "gifting" lead service lines to homeowners, and saying they no longer have any responsibility for the pipes. Replacing lead service lines on your property can cost thousands of dollars, and may increase lead levels during, and after, the replacement.


http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/12/11/water-filters-on-lead-pipes.aspx
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 09:25:53 AM by Professor H »
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Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

blue2

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2016, 09:01:54 AM »

wondering how Flints water problem is the governor's fault in the eyes of the Flint ruling body.
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Tea Party Patriot

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2016, 09:14:04 AM »

wondering how Flints water problem is the governor's fault in the eyes of the Flint ruling body.

Yeah!  How's it the governors fault?  The decision to use the flint river water and the old system was made by the emergency manager!  The governor had nothing to do with that other than putting the emergency manager in charge. wait nevermind.
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excelsior

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2016, 11:48:11 AM »

It appears some folk need to study the timeline.

Water pipeline vs. Flint River: City of Flint studying its drinking water options
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2011/01/water_pipeline_vs_flint_river.html


Pipeline to bring Lake Huron water to Genesee County is 'under budget and on schedule'
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/01/pipeline_to_bring_lake_huron_w.html
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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2016, 12:29:59 PM »

Right on fellow republican Excelsior!  It could'nt possibly be the fault of any of us republicans even though the top one in the state keeps apologizing.  http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/30/michigan-governer-rick-snyder-very-sorry-about-water-supply-debacle

Flint has been embroiled in a never-ending stream of water quality issues that began in April 2014, when the city started pulling water from a local river as a cost-saving measure. The switch took place while Flint was operated by a state-appointed emergency manager, who held vast powers to oversee day-to-day operations, as the Rust Belt city was buckling under financial straits.
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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2016, 12:33:04 PM »

So glad Snyder and our fellow republicans had a small government solution to save money for Flint.  This is going to be so much cheaper for the state in the long run.
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Monroe Native

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2016, 12:56:54 PM »

It appears some folk need to study the timeline.

Water pipeline vs. Flint River: City of Flint studying its drinking water options
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2011/01/water_pipeline_vs_flint_river.html


Pipeline to bring Lake Huron water to Genesee County is 'under budget and on schedule'
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/01/pipeline_to_bring_lake_huron_w.html


Don't let facts get in the way of a good lynching.
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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2016, 01:17:21 PM »

Republican governor Snyder and the majority republican lawmakers in Michigan have this totally under control.  If they didn't who would they turn to?  Probably another small government solution I'm sure?

Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder has asked President Obama to issue an emergency and major disaster declaration concerning the drinking water crisis in Flint that began months ago.
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Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2016, 01:28:40 PM »

Don't let facts get in the way of a good lynching.
LOL   nothing like ignoring the EPA and Federal guidelines for years before your City went in the toilet
Is it the governors fault the City of Flint can't manage their own business?
Remember even Granny saw the need to prevent another Bankrupt   Democrat run City!
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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2016, 01:41:28 PM »

So the Water Department has known there was an issue since 2011...    8*

The long line of Flint being unable to take care of its own business goes back to 2002-4  and 2011- present

But the fact they knew and did nothing back in 2011 goes back to the City Water Department - not the Governor or people appointed to help Flint Manage their money.

Oh yes 50$ million in "free" money was allocated back in November... 

==================================================================

So Kurtz either ignored, didn’t know or didn’t care that a Flint employee had sent a 2011 report on unsafe lead levels to the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality. Someone there passed the report — and the buck.

Wyant said one solution they’re considering is a revolving loan fund to help residents replace private lead service lines. He said that he had not seen the coming legislation, but “we would be open to what he’s asking for."

Wyant also said that state officials are studying and evaluating water service in other cities to ensure that no other place suffers what Flint did. He said that some cities do have water that “exceeds an action level, and we are working with them to come back into compliance.” He declined to say which cities they were.

Gary Brown, the interim head of the Detroit water system, said officials here are using the proper additives, including phosphate, to ensure that lead is not in residents’ water.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/columnists/rochelle-riley/2015/11/12/flint-water-sheldon-neeley-michigan-legislature/75610846/
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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2016, 01:43:20 PM »

So glad Snyder and our fellow republicans had a small government solution to save money for Flint.  This is going to be so much cheaper for the state in the long run.
Yep another corrupt/inept City the State has to bail out...   Which Democrat haven is next?
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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

Frenchfry

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2016, 01:21:45 AM »

Not sure why there's two anti-Snyder topics but I'll post what I put there:

The Snyder administration has been criticized for not acting quickly enough to the drinking water ban and for allowing Flint two years ago to switch to drawing water from the Flint River in an effort to save money without requiring corrosion controls which could have reduced lead levels from old pipes. On Jan. 5, he declared a state of emergency in the city and surrounding Genesee County on Jan. 5, but critics said that came months after initial alarm bells about the crisis went unheeded.

On Tuesday, he activated the Michigan National Guard, and seven soldiers were initially sent to Flint. A National Guard spokesman said the plan called for getting 30 soldiers into the city by Friday.
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/flint-water-crisis/2016/01/14/snyder-talks-obama-officials-over-flint-water/78817078/


====

Flint crisis is Michigan’s Katrina

Hurricane Katrina’s disastrous assault in 2005 on New Orleans — where about two thousand inhabitants died in the storm and its resulting wave of flooding when the city’s protective levees broke as they waited in vain for action from federal government officials mired in bureaucracy — is one of the most devastating events in history.

The majority of those inhabitants were black and poor and could not afford transportation to escape the storm in the Gulf Coast. Many died, and those who survived are still haunted by the trauma.

Katrina’s onslaught revealed underlying attitudes and lack of concern for those with little or no political influence and also exposed a large, long-suffering underclass of citizens craving for the attention of government.

Ten years later, the state of Michigan under Gov. Rick Snyder has created its own Katrina with the Flint water crisis. Despite pleas from residents and health officials including researchers from Virginia Tech about high levels of lead in the city’s water, those warnings were ignored by the state. For 18 months, residents, including pregnant women and children, were forced to drink the lead-contaminated water.

The crisis in Flint has unveiled a large number of people who are far removed from the wealth, power and privilege that get the attention of the lawmakers in Lansing as well as Snyder and officials at the state Department of Environmental Quality.

Flint, like New Orleans, is a majority African-American city and mostly impoverished. And while few, if any, big political donors who can directly summon the governor and other state officials to act with all deliberate speed in cases like the water crisis reside in Flint, government should still exist not just to provide security for the people, but also to improve their living conditions and deal with them truthfully at all times. Flint did not get such attention from the state.

More here:
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/2016/01/13/thompson-flint-water-crisis-snyder-katrina/78770564/


===


Snyder facing nation’s most serious scandal

Over the weekend, for example, the editorial board of the Detroit Free Press turned its attention directly to Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder (R), who’s facing calls for his arrest from protestors, comparing his handling of the Flint crisis to George W. Bush’s handling of Hurricane Katrina.
Right now, the State of Michigan should be able to say that it has ensured the delivery of bottled water and water filters to every Flint resident whose drinking water has been contaminated by lead…. Instead, the governor is offering placid responses and slow-walking important remedies, while the investigation into how one of Michigan’s greatest man-made public health crises unfolded comes up with explanations in dribs and drabs.
 
It’s not just derelict – it invokes inglorious comparison to other callous and insensitive official responses to tragedy. Think of the shameful federal response to Hurricane Katrina, where the same lack of urgency delayed life-saving aid. The poverty rate in Flint is 40%; 52% of Flint residents are African-American. And so we are prompted to ask: How would the state have responded to a crisis of such proportions in a community with more wealth and power?
Of course, there’s a key, heartbreaking difference between recent developments in Flint and the crisis in New Orleans in 2005: Katrina was a natural disaster; Flint’s disaster was the result of public officials showing breathtakingly bad judgment.
 
Let’s recap how we reached this point.
 
In 2014, the city of Flint, under the control of an “emergency manager” appointed by the governor, was looking for ways to save money. To that end, the Snyder administration approved a plan in which the city would switch its water source: instead of getting water from Detroit, Flint would cut costs by drawing water directly from the Flint River.
 
In theory, there’s nothing particularly wrong with getting drinking and bathing water from a nearby river; plenty of communities across the country already do that. But in order to make Flint River water safe for people, it has to receive a special anti-corrosion treatment. Failing to treat the water sends corrosive river water through local pipes, it starts to eat through plumbing, and the result is lead poisoning.
 
The Snyder administration did not take the necessary precautions. What’s more, as the community grew concerned about its water, administration officials initially told local residents not to worry and to keep drinking the water.
 
The result, of course, is a public health crisis in which countless city residents, including many children, have been poisoned, which leads to severe and long lasting  consequences. Snyder last week declared an official emergency – he also issued an apology of sorts on New Year’s Eve – but the people of Flint still don’t have safe, clean water.
 
There’s also the political crisis as a result of this man-made disaster. The EPA warned Snyder administration officials about rising lead levels, but the governor did not alert the public and state officials delayed action to address the problem.
 
The Republican governor is now facing calls for his resignation and #ArrestGovSnyder protests. Local residents are also moving forward with a class-action lawsuit over the crisis, and the U.S. Attorney’s office in Michigan has confirmed it is investigating the matter to determine if any laws were broken.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/michigans-snyder-facing-nations-most-serious-scandal


===

AG Schuette opens investigation into Flint water crisis
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/01/15/ag-schuette-flint-water-crisis/78836248/

===

Finley: Flint water crisis could help Kildee in ’18

Tragedy often spawns political opportunity, and the Flint water crisis is no different.

With the jockeying well underway for Michigan’s 2018 gubernatorial race, the question of whether the disaster in Flint will have legs in the campaign is already being kicked around.

“The election is still a long way off, and that helps,” says Paul Welday, a Republican political strategist. “If managed effectively from here on out, the impact will be minimized. But these are the kinds of things that can ooze through your fingers and be very damaging.”

Republicans obviously are the ones at risk of being damaged. Decisions that precipitated lead entering Flint’s public water system — and the bloodstreams of its children — were made while Flint was under an emergency manager appointed by Gov. Rick Snyder.

Bungling by Snyder’s departments of Environmental Quality and Health delayed the state’s response, and has put the administration in a very harsh national spotlight.

If the fallout lingers into the official start of the campaign, it could hurt candidates associated with the administration, notably Lt. Gov. Brian Calley, and with Lansing’s Republican leadership, notably Attorney General Bill Schuette.

Who it helps also is obvious: Democratic Congressman Dan Kildee, who represents the Flint area.

More here:
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/nolan-finley/2016/01/13/finley-kildee/78775166/

===

I'll leave the gag order info in the Snyder thread:
http://monroetalks.com/forum/index.php?topic=27794.msg726764;topicseen#msg726764
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This is what I see when I visit:

"Sorry Frenchfry, you are banned from posting and sending personal messages on this forum.
This ban is not set to expire."

No emails, no warnings, no communication whatsoever...just that ban

May be what happened to the other libs as well.

I guess disabling the report to admin link only on the lib side was indicative of the slanted games they play.

Enjoy your spoon-fed Faux News type right-wing echo-chamber.

Edited to add:

This is the only way to answer some of the questions posed:

1) I did nothing to warrant the banishment, it's political.

2) It's the router that's blocked but considering all the nonsense right-wing games being played by those running the site...it's just not worth it to bypass the banishment block.

3) The moron stalkers from MT contemplating a visit will be considered a threat and can expect to have a bad day if they act upon those idiotic thoughts.

bumfunkegypt@live.com

Tim Heiss

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2016, 05:19:54 AM »

Not sure why there's two anti-Snyder topics but I'll post what I put there:

I made this one specifically for the water problem in Flint.
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