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Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2016, 08:05:51 AM »

I made this one specifically for the water problem in Flint.
Apparently the topic heading was too confusing for some - you can change it if you wish...

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Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2016, 08:09:46 AM »

While there is a problem -  it's not like the water departments haven't been warned and told to replace those lead pipes...   SINCE 1991!     instead the water departments lobbied to weaken the rules so they didn't have to spend money for public health/safety!

and somehow there are some that want to make up the story this just happened
===========================================

In 1991, EPA published a regulation to control lead and copper in drinking water. This regulation is known as the Lead and Copper Rule (also referred to as the LCR). Since 1991 the LCR has undergone various revisions, see the Rule History section below.

http://www.epa.gov/dwreginfo/lead-and-copper-rule
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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

BigRedDog

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2016, 09:15:39 AM »

I see 'Schuette on Duty' is conducting an investigation which is especially interesting since just a few months ago he refused to get involved!!!

I'm sure with him checking things out we'll get to the bottom of things shortly ;) ;) ;)
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Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2016, 09:38:01 AM »

From the LCR (EPA) rule:

While the LCR rule applies to water utilities, the Reduction of Lead in Drinking Water Act sets standards for:
pipe,
Requirements for Optimal Corrosion Control Treatment
EPA has recently published a memo to address the requirements pertaining to maintenance of optimal corrosion control treatment, in situations in which a large water system ceases to purchase treated water and switches to a new drinking water source.
plumbing fittings,
fixtures,
solder 
and flux

The treatment technique for the rule requires systems to monitor drinking water at customer taps. If lead concentrations exceed an action level of 15 ppb or copper concentrations exceed an action level of 1.3 ppm in more than 10% of customer taps sampled, the system must undertake a number of additional actions to control corrosion.
If the action level for lead is exceeded, the system must also inform the public about steps they should take to protect their health and may have to replace lead service lines under their control.

There in is the rub -   The System only replaces some of the lead pipe (if they did any)
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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2016, 09:42:18 AM »

http://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P1005884.txt

It appears the System during the changeover - ignored or didn't know there was EPA rules to monitor Corrosion and testing requirments for lead?

Pg 11/12 of the document

and  page 14
They system is supposed to keep records of how much lead pipe it has
and how they go about replacement - up to the part they are responsible for - and then how to notify the property owners about the lead pipe under their control.

Curious if any of that has been done - ever since this 2000 revision?
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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2016, 10:22:48 AM »

https://www.cityofflint.com/wp-content/uploads/CCR-2014.pdf

Per page 6 they tested the water after the switch
100 households participated
2 samples were at the AL (meaning additional testing was called for)

1 sample was at the AL in 2003 (a random selection from the past)
http://flintweb2.cityofflint.com/Utilities/2003RptWtr.pdf

2001-12 reports   http://flintweb2.cityofflint.com/Utilities/wtr_qlty_rpt.asp



Failure of utilities and regulatory agencies to take responsibility for the two most important
modern day public health problems arising in building plumbing systems (i.e., lead and
OPPPs). For ten years EPA has acknowledged that utilities are collecting samples in a manner
that “misses” worst case lead in water,41-43 and to date they have not required utilities to change
monitoring practices to better reveal problems
http://flintwaterstudy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/rapid-proposal-final.pdf
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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2016, 10:28:34 AM »

appears to me from some quick check of history and facts that the water system admin had not the proper people in place to follow simple rules/guidelines....   

Not knowing - I can only speculate that Flint may have done like other Cities - promoting or hiring Friends to top positions instead of the best qualified.

Sad to see that this likely would have not occurred if they had applied anti-corrosive procedures/chemicals
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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

BigRedDog

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2016, 10:59:42 AM »

Forget 'Schuette on Duty'...

Michael Moore will have things figured out by later this afternoon:

http://www.wxyz.com/news/michael-moore-holding-press-conference-at-flint-city-hall-on-saturday
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blue2

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2016, 11:17:41 AM »

I wonder if the fat clown will be wearing his sparty cap
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Monroe Native

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2016, 11:58:45 AM »

I wonder if the fat clown will be wearing his sparty cap

You know he will waddle in there with his Sparty cap on.

They can have him.
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Tim Heiss

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2016, 12:03:21 PM »

I see the Prof has been hard at work trying to defend Snyder.

Couple of tidbits I'd like to point out.

The Flint river is already pretty damn toxic on its own, changing to use that as a water source was a terrible idea. On top of the lead concerns now the have had 10 people die from legionaires disease.

The higher concentration of lead could have been reduced by a $100 a day additive to the water which would reduce the amount of leeching from the lead from the pipes into the water, but evidently $100 a day is not cost effective.

It is reported that Snyder knew of the problem in April but nothing was said to the residents until October, but his communications regarding the matter are sealed and can not be accessed with the freedom of information act because Michigan is one of the few states were the Governor is immune to it.
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blue2

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2016, 12:08:59 PM »

to bad they didn't consult with you first
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Tim Heiss

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2016, 12:14:00 PM »

to bad they didn't consult with you first
The information is out there for anyone willing to do a little work.

Guess that leaves you out.
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blue2

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2016, 12:30:54 PM »

I drink Toledo's water. I don't care.  Oh wait
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Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2016, 01:31:58 PM »

I see the Prof has been hard at work trying to defend Snyder.

Couple of tidbits I'd like to point out.

The Flint river is already pretty damn toxic on its own, changing to use that as a water source was a terrible idea. On top of the lead concerns now the have had 10 people die from legionaires disease.

The higher concentration of lead could have been reduced by a $100 a day additive to the water which would reduce the amount of leeching from the lead from the pipes into the water, but evidently $100 a day is not cost effective.

It is reported that Snyder knew of the problem in April but nothing was said to the residents until October, but his communications regarding the matter are sealed and can not be accessed with the freedom of information act because Michigan is one of the few states were the Governor is immune to it.
Not hard at work to defend anyone - just seeking knowledge... 

Blame goes around plenty when you have an entire system collapse.

Can't find anything on who actually is running the plant or their education/background/qualifications. 

Also Never have found out how much lead pipe there is in the Infrastructure - although it was supposed to be recorded or monitored back in 1991...

According to you the Water Department is being run by the Governor now?   
I thought EM worked with the local department heads not take over their jobs...
also remember the only reason their is an EM is because the Flint leadership couldn't stop themselves from spending.

Its easy to blame someone else instead of saying hey we had incompetent people working in the water system.   The water treatment is the issue - or should we say improper water treatment - not the supply...   as any person who is qualified should have been able to sample and test to see what needed to be done different with a different supply...     Thus why I imagine it was a buddy appointment - let's just do what we've always done.

I also pointed out EPA regulations that have been around for longer than the EM... (pick your choice there's been two separate times)

Not sure how you expect or even want a governor knowing how to do every job that is available in every City?    Funny logic for your blame... 



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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi
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