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Tim Heiss

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2016, 01:45:43 PM »

Not hard at work to defend anyone - just seeking knowledge... 

Blame goes around plenty when you have an entire system collapse.

Can't find anything on who actually is running the plant or their education/background/qualifications. 

Also Never have found out how much lead pipe there is in the Infrastructure - although it was supposed to be recorded or monitored back in 1991...

According to you the Water Department is being run by the Governor now?   
I thought EM worked with the local department heads not take over their jobs...
also remember the only reason their is an EM is because the Flint leadership couldn't stop themselves from spending.

Its easy to blame someone else instead of saying hey we had incompetent people working in the water system.   The water treatment is the issue - or should we say improper water treatment - not the supply...   as any person who is qualified should have been able to sample and test to see what needed to be done different with a different supply...     Thus why I imagine it was a buddy appointment - let's just do what we've always done.

I also pointed out EPA regulations that have been around for longer than the EM... (pick your choice there's been two separate times)

Not sure how you expect or even want a governor knowing how to do every job that is available in every City?    Funny logic for your blame...
He has known since April of the problem and did nothing about it, not even inform the people.

But hey he has an R by his title so he gets a free pass.

Good news is the guy he put in charge of Flint is now in charge of Detroit Public Schools.
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Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2016, 01:48:43 PM »

He has known since April of the problem and did nothing about it, not even inform the people.

But hey he has an R by his title so he gets a free pass.

Good news is the guy he put in charge of Flint is now in charge of Detroit Public Schools.
So the Flint government has a gag order?   didn't know that... 

or are you saying the Flint water treatment facility puts out false data and lies to the EPA
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Marion Berry

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Tim Heiss

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2016, 01:53:00 PM »

So the Flint government has a gag order?
No Snyder does.

But hey, I'm sure his task force will find out who knew what and when.  8*
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excelsior

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2016, 02:40:06 PM »


Good news is the guy he put in charge of Flint is now in charge of Detroit Public Schools.

Could you update my timeline with how Darnell Earley caused this issue?

March 2013 - Flint City council votes (7-1) to stop buying Detroit water.

March 2013
- Detroit notifies Flint contract for water cancelled April 2014.   Flint forced to find new supply of water.

July 2013 - Testing begins at Flint River water plant to provide city water.

September 2013 - Darnell Earley appointed Flint's emergency manager

April 2014 - Switch made to Flint River




« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 05:45:40 PM by excelsior »
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Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2016, 02:44:38 PM »

Could update my timeline with how Darnell Earley caused this issue?

March 2013 - Flint City council votes (7-1) to stop buying Detroit water.

March 2013
- Detroit notifies Flint contract for water cancelled April 2014.   Flint forced to find new supply of water.

July 2013 - Testing begins at Flint River water plant to provide city water.

September 2013 - Darnell Earley appointed Flint's emergency manager

April 2014 - Switch made to Flint River

No facts needed -  it's gotta be the governments fault - except the government at fault was Flint...  and because they are so bad at running it - the State is in to bail them out.

This will eventually bankrupt Flint... 
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Marion Berry

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Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2016, 02:47:48 PM »

No Snyder does.

But hey, I'm sure his task force will find out who knew what and when.  8*
Best you can do is say  he knew something in April ...   

yet free pass to Flint who still is in the Government Business and running various departments lst I knew... They still do roads and fire and other stuff without the Governor calling all the shots for those departments... 

What so difficult about water treatment that it takes the governor to take classes and learn what Flint's people should have known?
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Marion Berry

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excelsior

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2016, 05:36:25 PM »

No facts needed -  it's gotta be the governments fault - except the government at fault was Flint...  and because they are so bad at running it - the State is in to bail them out.

This will eventually bankrupt Flint...

Why isn't anyone asking why the Detroit Water Department cancelled Flint's supply of water and forced them to find an alternative supply?   

It appears that Flint government wasn't going planning to cancel the contract until the new TWA pipeline was complete in 2017.
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"The beginning of wisdom is a definition of terms." ~ Socrates

"No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude." ~ Karl Popper

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“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”  ~ Socrates

BigRedDog

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2016, 06:10:56 PM »

The Federal Emergency Order has been approved so now they can throw lots and lots of money at the problem!!!

http://www.monroenews.com/news/2016/jan/16/obama-declares-state-emergency-flint/
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Monroe Native

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2016, 07:43:22 PM »

Why isn't anyone asking why the Detroit Water Department cancelled Flint's supply of water and forced them to find an alternative supply?   

It appears that Flint government wasn't going planning to cancel the contract until the new TWA pipeline was complete in 2017.

It has to be some Republicans fault FOR SURE.

Everyone knows that Detroit and Flint are dominated by Republicans.
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Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2016, 11:24:13 AM »

If you think the peons could've overruled the EM then you really don't understand how that works...but that shouldn't surprise anybody.

The peons you refer to are the elected officials who were not relieved of their responsibilities - and in fact were involved in the decision making process.   

From a Freep article -   Snippets to cut out the editorial fill ins...
=====================================================================

On March 25, 2013, then-state Treasurer Andy Dillon and Gov. Rick Snyder’s chief of staff, Dennis Muchmore, held a telephone conversation about “Flint water supply alternatives,” according to records obtained by the Free Press under FOIA.

Later that evening, the Flint City Council, which was under a state-appointed emergency manager, voted 7-1 in favor of a switch in the source of its water supply from the City of Detroit to a new Karegnondi Water Authority

But the records don't show that Snyder or Dillon decided Flint residents should drink Flint River water until their new KWA pipeline to Lake Huron was completed.

The decision to draw water from the Flint River starting in April 2014, combined with a failure by the state Department of Environmental Quality to require treatment to soften the water to reduce corrosion and the leaching of lead from delivery pipes and other failures related to water testing, ultimately proved disastrous.


Mayor Walling was quoted in March 2013 saying Flint would continue to get its water from the DWSD until the $272-million KWA pipeline system to Flint was completed. On Friday, he repeated his assertion that the plan was to stick with Detroit as an interim source, and said he was not aware of any pressure from Dillon or other state officials to instead use the Flint River as an interim source because it would be cheaper.

"DWSD at the time was overseen by a board appointed by (U.S. District) Judge (Sean) Cox as the system was under federal oversight," Dillon said. "If Flint was unable to negotiate a fair deal, I recall their backup plan was to use the Flint River. I don't recall Treasury being involved in the negotiations with DWSD or, after negotiations broke down, in Flint's decision to switch to the Flint River."


"I never received any pressure from the governor's office to decide one way or the other on approving the KWA," the former treasurer said.  "We ... made a decision based upon what we thought was in the best interests of Flint.  The decision to support KWA was influenced by our conclusion that there was no financial risk to Flint for the project, and the DEQ's conclusion that it was more beneficial and economical for Flint to join KWA (again a separate and distinct decision from using the Flint River)." Also, "this is the outcome the local officials wanted," he said.


Snyder spokeswoman Sara Wurfel said the governor was part of "a consensus" about Flint splitting with the DWSD to get its long-term water from the KWA, but Snyder was not involved in efforts to reach an interim pricing agreement between Flint and Detroit, and not involved in the decision to draw drinking water from the Flint River.

Once talks between Flint and Detroit failed, "if you don't have another water source, where else was it going to come from?" she asked Friday.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2015/11/21/snyders-top-aide-talked-flint-water-supply-alternatives/76037130/
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Marion Berry

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Professor H

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2016, 11:31:28 AM »

Here's the Cliff notes version of the Investigative report from the FREEP

=====================================================================

On March 25, 2013, then-state Treasurer Andy Dillon and Gov. Rick Snyder’s chief of staff, Dennis Muchmore, held a telephone conversation about “Flint water supply alternatives,” according to records obtained by the Free Press under FOIA.

 Flint City Council, voted 7-1 in favor of a switch in the source of its water supply from the City of Detroit to a new Karegnondi Water Authority

the records don't show that Snyder or Dillon decided Flint residents should drink Flint River water


Mayor Walling was quoted in March 2013 saying Flint would continue to get its water from the DWSD until the $272-million KWA pipeline system to Flint was completedhe was not aware of any pressure from Dillon or other state officials to instead use the Flint River as an interim source because it would be cheaper.

Dillon said. "If Flint was unable to negotiate a fair deal, I recall their backup plan was to use the Flint River. I don't recall Treasury being involved in the negotiations with DWSD or, after negotiations broke down, in Flint's decision to switch to the Flint River."


"I never received any pressure from the governor's office to decide one way or the other on approving the KWA,"
Also, "this is the outcome the local officials wanted," he said.


Snyder spokeswoman Sara Wurfel said the governor was part of "a consensus" about Flint splitting with the DWSD to get its long-term water from the KWA, but Snyder was not involved in efforts to reach an interim pricing agreement between Flint and Detroit, and not involved in the decision to draw drinking water from the Flint River.
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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

Monroe Native

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2016, 11:37:41 AM »

Here's the Cliff notes version of the Investigative report from the FREEP

=====================================================================

On March 25, 2013, then-state Treasurer Andy Dillon and Gov. Rick Snyder’s chief of staff, Dennis Muchmore, held a telephone conversation about “Flint water supply alternatives,” according to records obtained by the Free Press under FOIA.

 Flint City Council, voted 7-1 in favor of a switch in the source of its water supply from the City of Detroit to a new Karegnondi Water Authority

the records don't show that Snyder or Dillon decided Flint residents should drink Flint River water


Mayor Walling was quoted in March 2013 saying Flint would continue to get its water from the DWSD until the $272-million KWA pipeline system to Flint was completedhe was not aware of any pressure from Dillon or other state officials to instead use the Flint River as an interim source because it would be cheaper.

Dillon said. "If Flint was unable to negotiate a fair deal, I recall their backup plan was to use the Flint River. I don't recall Treasury being involved in the negotiations with DWSD or, after negotiations broke down, in Flint's decision to switch to the Flint River."


"I never received any pressure from the governor's office to decide one way or the other on approving the KWA,"
Also, "this is the outcome the local officials wanted," he said.


Snyder spokeswoman Sara Wurfel said the governor was part of "a consensus" about Flint splitting with the DWSD to get its long-term water from the KWA, but Snyder was not involved in efforts to reach an interim pricing agreement between Flint and Detroit, and not involved in the decision to draw drinking water from the Flint River.

Yep.  All Snyder's fault.  A giant conspiracy.
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excelsior

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2016, 01:34:37 PM »

Here's the Cliff notes version of the Investigative report from the FREEP

It is nice to see someone doing some research and not just spouting talking points.  Some folks expose themselves when they blame someone that wasn't even appointed when the decision was made.

It still seems strange to me that Detroit cancelled the contract years before they needed to.  That action cost that city millions of loss revenue.  Why?





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Tim Heiss

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2016, 02:48:41 PM »

Residents were continuing to demand reconnection to the Detroit system. The Flint City Council actually voted on March 23, 2015 to reconnect with Detroit’s water, but the then Emergency Manager, Jerry Ambrose, opposed the decision and stated “Water from Detroit is no safer than water from Flint.”
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Tim Heiss

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Re: How Flint's Leaders Poisoned Their Own Constituents
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2016, 02:53:47 PM »

In July a number of Detroit organizations sponsored a Detroit to Flint Water Justice Journey. The 70-mile walk called for affordable clean water available to all. Beginning in Detroit, where residents are battling shutoffs that result from the high cost of water and are demanding a Water Affordability Plan, the march ended with a rally at the Flint City Hall, where residents reported the continuing lead poisoning, skin burns, hair loss, and other problems.

Yet the Governor and the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality remained silent even when an internal memo from the Environmental Protection Agency was leaked by the American Civil Liberties Union. Miguel Del Toral, the author, wrote: “A major concern from a public health standpoint is lack of corrosion control treatment In the city of Flint for mitigating lead and copper levels in the drinking water.” In August Marc Edwards, a Virginia Tech University researcher, revealed that Flint water (going through copper pipe with lead solder, which is common in older homes) without phosphates corroded lead at 19 times the rate of DWSD’s water. Adding phosphates can coat the pipes and reduce the corrosion, but they carry their own problems (e.g. runoff causing cyanobacteria blooms).

It was only on September 24th, when Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha at Hurley Medical Center released the data showing the dramatic spike in blood-levels of Flint children, that the story became international news. It took considerable courage for her to go public with her findings and blow apart the bureaucratic coverup of what had happened. By the beginning of October, state officials held a press conference and admitted that her data were accurate. Since reconnecting the water to DWSD will cost $12 million until the Karegnondi Water Authority is up and running, the Governor has had to agree to take responsibility for coming up with the money. He is promising $6 million from the state and has secured $4 million from the Flint-based C.S. Mott Foundation, with $2 million to come from the city.
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