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BigRedDog

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Re: PFAs are poisoning our water
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2018, 09:14:36 AM »

Not trying to come across as Cavalier by any means but, it's there and has been for a while now.  I look at it this way...  Back in the day, substances like Asbestos and Tetra Ethyl Lead were commonly used (mercury in thermometers too) and were deemed to be fine (by the chemists of that era) and now they find out that they are not fine.

So, it's in the water supply.  What is the alternative, quit drinking and using the water?  Not going to happen.  As humans, we need water to survive.  I'm not going to get anal about something I cannot control, I have other issues to deal with.

To be pollution free would require way more bucks than anyone is willing to spend (and many don't have it to spend anyway).  Relying on governmental agencies to 'foot the bill' only causes taxes to rise, bottom line is, someone has to pay for it and that someone is you, the taxpayer.

Consequently, I'm not getting my panties in a twist over it.

One, it's there and has been
Two, remediation / elimination is beyond the scope of most governmental agencies
Three,  when no one knew, life continued on and will continue on no matter what happens.

Kind of like the nitrate runoff and the algae in Lake Erie's western basin.  Government knows what the cause (of the toxic algae is) but doing something about it appears to me to be something that cannot be dealt with because it might offend a certain group, in this case farmers, so all that happens is postulation and band-aid fixes, none of which will eliminate or actually reduce the issue.

All industry pollutes to some extent, some more than others.  It distills down to what is acceptable and what isn't.

No way will any of us (even you) live pollution free.  You find it acceptable to use used motor oil as an accelerant to start your brush fires.  Ever think about the particulates you are releasing into the atmosphere and/or the known carcinogens that are there as well, or the amount that leaches into the ground from you doing that?  bet not.  Just the burning of brush is releasing particulates into the air that your neighbors are breathing with no choice.

Bet you never consider those things because most people don't.  Me included.

No way will we ever live in a pollution free enviroment.  We have to come to terms with what is acceptable and what isn't.  For me, the PFAS issue is a non issue because I have no control over it and if I had any, not sure I would be financially positive about dealing with it.

You're an informed adult so you can handle it as you see fit. 

A lot of children and some adults using these municipal water systems  that just 'trust' the water to be safe. 

It's beginning to look like the PFAs are going to be a bigger issue than any of these other 'initialed' (PCBs, PBBs, etc.) chemicals. 

Looks like the state is sending more of your Ice Mountain water do Kzoo.

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BigRedDog

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Re: PFAs are poisoning our water
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2018, 09:30:22 AM »

Not trying to come across as Cavalier by any means but, it's there and has been for a while now.  I look at it this way...  Back in the day, substances like Asbestos and Tetra Ethyl Lead were commonly used (mercury in thermometers too) and were deemed to be fine (by the chemists of that era) and now they find out that they are not fine.

So, it's in the water supply.  What is the alternative, quit drinking and using the water?  Not going to happen.  As humans, we need water to survive.  I'm not going to get anal about something I cannot control, I have other issues to deal with.

To be pollution free would require way more bucks than anyone is willing to spend (and many don't have it to spend anyway).  Relying on governmental agencies to 'foot the bill' only causes taxes to rise, bottom line is, someone has to pay for it and that someone is you, the taxpayer.

Consequently, I'm not getting my panties in a twist over it.

One, it's there and has been
Two, remediation / elimination is beyond the scope of most governmental agencies
Three,  when no one knew, life continued on and will continue on no matter what happens.

Kind of like the nitrate runoff and the algae in Lake Erie's western basin.  Government knows what the cause (of the toxic algae is) but doing something about it appears to me to be something that cannot be dealt with because it might offend a certain group, in this case farmers, so all that happens is postulation and band-aid fixes, none of which will eliminate or actually reduce the issue.

All industry pollutes to some extent, some more than others.  It distills down to what is acceptable and what isn't.

No way will any of us (even you) live pollution free.  You find it acceptable to use used motor oil as an accelerant to start your brush fires.  Ever think about the particulates you are releasing into the atmosphere and/or the known carcinogens that are there as well, or the amount that leaches into the ground from you doing that?  bet not.  Just the burning of brush is releasing particulates into the air that your neighbors are breathing with no choice.

Bet you never consider those things because most people don't.  Me included.

No way will we ever live in a pollution free enviroment.  We have to come to terms with what is acceptable and what isn't.  For me, the PFAS issue is a non issue because I have no control over it and if I had any, not sure I would be financially positive about dealing with it.

I do choose to use the 'accelerant' for the simple fact that it takes the fire from producing lots of particulants (smoke) to a very clean combustion (no smoke).  I also use the Stihl blower to add oxygen to the 'fire triangle'.  The faster you get through the smoke stage of the fire the better. 

I take a few other precautions that I'll bet most people do not.  I burn on a clay field and not on the sand.  Water runs off the clay so don't think the oil is penetrating it very far.

I don't go overboard with the oil but use it as a tool to control the fire.

When I start a fire it typically burns for 3 or 4 days as I keep adding 'down and dead' materials.  Any oil that was on or near the surface of the clay is literally cooked out of the ground by the sustained heat.  None of the places I've ever burned show any sign of surface pollution from the accelerant. 
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BigRedDog

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Re: PFAs are poisoning our water
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2018, 09:37:40 AM »

The state has now declared a 'state of emergency' in the two areas served by the contaminated water systems.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/state-of-emergency-in-west-michigan-local-rep-pushes-for-chemical-ban
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BigRedDog

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Re: PFAs are poisoning our water
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2018, 02:18:18 PM »

Here's a map of 'confirmed' contamination areas across the state. 



Article that goes with the above map:

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/map-here-are-confirmed-pfas-threats-michigan-water

When it comes to 'potential' contaminated sites then it looks a lot worse!

One of the major sources of PFAs turns out to be in the foam that firefighters use.  There is probably at least 15 gallons on nearly every pumper in Michigan.

It's referred to as AFFF (A triple F) foam.  It has a shelf life although I don't recall how long it is.  It was not uncommon for departments to 'train' with the expired foam so that is probably why the stations are considered potential contaminated sites. 

More info:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/07/30/deq-pfas-chemical-contamination-pollution-michigan/851152002/

https://www.mlive.com/expo/news/erry-2018/07/00699c24a57658/michigan_pfas_sites.html

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/07/30/michigan-halfway-testing-hundreds-water-sites-pfas/865556002/

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/07/30/deq-pfas-chemical-contamination-pollution-michigan/851152002/
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BigRedDog

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SidecarFlip

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Re: PFAs are poisoning our water
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2018, 01:55:59 PM »

Reading along they talk about capping 2 landfills.  Got news for ya. capping landfill does nothing for leachate.  Capping just makes a 'roof.  If the liner is compromised, the leachate leaks out and pollutes the groundwater and why do I think neither landfill has a non permable liner anyway
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SidecarFlip

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Re: PFAs are poisoning our water
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2018, 01:58:21 PM »

Glad I don't live there.  Our water is bad enough without having chemicals in it.  At least we don't drink recycled LE water, remember sewage out drinking water in.

Have ours tested regularly.  Always comes back clean, green and loaded with calcium.
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BigRedDog

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Re: PFAs are poisoning our water
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2018, 08:54:24 AM »

Glad I don't live there.  Our water is bad enough without having chemicals in it.  At least we don't drink recycled LE water, remember sewage out drinking water in.

Have ours tested regularly.  Always comes back clean, green and loaded with calcium.

You don't have to live there for this to be impacting your water.  If there is any link between the aquifer your well draws water from and potential contamination in that area then there could be PFAs in your water too.

Have you ever had your well tested specifically for PFA contamination?  They don't show up in a standard Michigan regulated test because Michigan doesn't regulate them.  Until a few years ago no one even knew what they were.  I've never had our well tested for them either although we don't drink much of the water.  We don't use if for coffee because it has enough minerals to plug up a coffee maker in short order.  We drink mostly bottled water although if I'm outside with the hose running I'll grab a drink out of it.  I do use it for brushing my teeth and showers.  Can't remember if there is a contact advisory or just a do not drink advisory right now.  i see one of the water systems found to be contaminated is in Saginaw.  Midland draws their water from the same pipeline which draws from way out in Lake Huron.  The only time we had city water it was on that system but we haven't had that for 30+ years. 

https://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/08/pfas_michigan_public_water.html
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SidecarFlip

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Re: PFAs are poisoning our water
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2018, 11:09:24 PM »

We don't either.  We use ours just like you do,  No drink.  If you made coffee from ours, the creamer would curdle.  Washing clothes, bathing and watering the garden is about it.  I use rainwater to wash the cars and equipment.  Usually have about 700 gallons on hand.
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BigRedDog

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Re: More water woes near former Wurtsmith AFB at Oscoda
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2018, 09:46:33 AM »

Lake Margarethe is where I am at. The problem was discovered a couple of years ago. Some contamination has been found in local wells and of course the foam. 70 parts per trillion is the threshold set for it to be an official problem. One 1 well so far has exceeded that but any well where it is detected at all gets the free water filter installed. I'm not checking my wells. All of the neighbors did and are clean so I'm not wasting my time with it.

We've been camping at the Manistee River Bridge DNR campground a few miles west of Lake Margrethe.  We drove into the campground and the boat launch Sunday and they have the warning sign about the 'foam' prominently displayed at the boat launch.  I would guess they have them all up and down the swimming beaches  too. 
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Maverick

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Re: PFAs are poisoning our water
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2018, 05:22:46 PM »

LOL It says don't eat the foam !! 
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BigRedDog

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Re: PFAs are poisoning our water
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2018, 03:32:23 AM »

LOL It says don't eat the foam !!

Once we get settled down I'll go through my pictures.  I think I took a picture of the sign at the boat launch. 

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BigRedDog

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Re: PFAs are poisoning our water
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2018, 09:07:29 AM »

Not sure if she was talking just about PFAs or not but at least she used her very high profile appearance to bring a little attention to the general situation in Michigan's water issues.

https://www.mlive.com/expo/news/erry-2018/09/1d3450ae002039/miss-michigan-2018-makes-waves.html
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BigRedDog

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Don't swallow foam on the Huron River, state warns amid PFAS concerns
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2018, 06:58:27 AM »

LOL It says don't eat the foam !!

Looks like those signs are following you home!  Getting pretty close to home when it's on the Huron River!

https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2018/09/huron_river_foam_may_contain_h.html

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Maverick

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Re: PFAs are poisoning our water
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2018, 09:17:58 AM »

I had 2 of my wells tested yesterday. I'll post the results when I get them.
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