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BigRedDog

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Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« on: October 03, 2017, 10:00:44 AM »

Lots of discussion on the interweb last night on a potential '2nd shooter'...   even some grainy (why are they always grainy?) videos that purport to show muzzle flash coming from much lower in the hotel. 

Let me be right up front and make it clear...  I am not saying there was a 2nd shooter but only that there is a lot of discussion at this very early stage in the investigation.  It appears to me that there is currently more  'conspiracy talk' than is typical this early on. 

Do a Google search for Las Vegas and one of the top 'suggested' responses is '2nd shooter'.  Here's the results from a search I just did.  Please note that over time the responses will certainly change...   probably by the minute or hour.

https://www.google.com/search?q=las+vegas+2nd+shooter&rlz=1CAACAT_enUS737US737&oq=las+ve&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60j69i57j69i60l2.5416j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I am not going to post any of the articles or youtubes at this point so as not to influence anyone's opinion.  Just posting this to give the 'curious' something to think about as this entire investigation progresses.  It is not by any means 'uncommon' to hear talk of conspiracy theories following any major event.  I think back to the assassination of JFK when it seems like it was years before the '2nd shooter' discussion went mainstream.  Obviously, no internet back then so much more difficult to communicate.

Also there is no intent to take anything away from any of the victims of this tragic event.  In fact getting to 'the bottom' of all the circumstances both before, during and after the actual shooting should be considered as helping to honor their loss.  If I were to 'go' in a similar situation I would the world to know 'the truth'!!!

Anyone else have 'early on' thoughts or suggestions as to what might be lurking in the background ??? ??? ???
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BigRedDog

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2017, 10:08:27 AM »

Before anyone gripes about posting this on the 'news' board I did think about it before hand as to where to post my question.  The politics board may have upset some too and so far we don't have a board for 'conspiracy theories'.
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Newport-Bill

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2017, 11:18:32 AM »

I think its a question worth asking.  In watching the news reports the pictures of the Mandalay Bay show 2 windows on the 32 floor blown out.  The first thing I said was why need a second one when you have a direct view of your target from the first?
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excelsior

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2017, 12:51:53 PM »


The two windows used were on different planes.    This 45 degree offset allowed he to increase his  instead killing field from about 170 to about 215 degrees.     You will see how the shooter used this increased range when they map the ballistics.


Someone posted a video of when they stayed in that same room.

Mandalay Bay room 32135 Route 91 2016.
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SidecarFlip

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2017, 02:15:15 PM »

Couple things.  One the whole thing smells like yesterdays fish.  This guy, wealthy, with no record goes on a killing spree from a 32nd floor hotel room, makes no sense to me.

I surmised correctly that contrary to the reports (from supposedly learned people in the crowd) that it was 'automatic weapons fire' from a select fire rifle, it wasn't.  It was a gas blowback semi-auto AR15 platform equipped with a readily  available slide fire butt stock you can buy for 70 bucks and any gun shop, Cabelas included or, online for that matter.

The clandestine pictures of the hotel room and the 2 AR's on the floor (with numerous shell casings all around) were, I surmised correctly again, either 223's or 556 NATO.  It was reported that he was shooting a large caliber weapon.  Not true.  I listened to the sound clips and I knew it was a 223 or 556, not a 7.62 x 54 (308), I know the difference is sound, I have both and fire both.

All the guns I'm sure were bought legally.  This guy could have passed any NICS check, if, in fact he did it.  Thhere is no plausible reason for him to, why I don't think he did.

I also don't think we will ever know.  We will only learn what the media wants us to learn.

I feel bad for his immediate family as well as the dead and injured.

But, I'm of the school of thought that he either had a partner or he was a fall guy for the real shooter.

None of it concerning him, makes any sense at all.

I do know one thing for sure, I know why I avoid crowds.  Was like shooting fish in a barrel.

I'm sure the gun bangers will be out in full force, chanting for gun control again, even though this had nothing to do with gun control at all.

Bloomberg probably walked around yesterday with a hard on all day.... ;D
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excelsior

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2017, 02:57:36 PM »


Marilou Danley seems to be the key to this puzzle.

Las Vegas Shooter Wired $100,000 to Philippines Last Week

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/las-vegas-shooting/las-vegas-shooting-what-we-know-about-victims-so-far-n806961
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"The beginning of wisdom is a definition of terms." ~ Socrates

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“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”  ~ Socrates

blue2

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2017, 03:50:29 PM »

His girlfriend might clear some things up. What did she know about him? When did she leave the country??  Where does she stand regarding his assets?
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nails

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2017, 05:57:49 PM »


As long as we're talking about hypotheticals . . .

Although he wasn't a veteran, maybe he watched the "Ken Burns Vietnam Documentary" and got caught up in the military scenario. That has been on TV during the days leading up to this.

Sounds far fetched, but nothing is making sense about this one.
Old white guy, shooting a bunch of white people, without a cause that we know of.
Did he send his girlfriend on a vacation to keep her away from suspicion?

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Maverick

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2017, 06:00:09 PM »

Did anybody check the grassy knoll
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BigRedDog

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2017, 06:02:09 PM »

Article from the Washington Post contains photos that were apparently leaked by a LV Police Dept. person!!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/10/03/as-las-vegas-grieves-investigators-struggle-to-piece-together-the-motives-behind-shooting/?utm_term=.761ce3197df9



I was going to link to the image but in the time I copied the article link and started posting here the photo had disappeared when I went back to the article...   strange!!!

Quote from the article regarding the photo (among others):

Quote
Lombardo also said the department has opened an investigation into the unauthorized release of images that show the crime scene, including the bullet-riddled door to the suite used by the gunman, Stephen Paddock. Police said Paddock fired at hotel security before taking his own life.

In these photographs, obtained by the German newsmagazine Bild on Tuesday, a portion of Paddock’s two-room suite is visible. A gun with a scope and a stand can also be seen inside the room, just behind yellow crime-scene tape crisscrossing the door.

Lombardo declined to confirm whether the images were legitimate, but he said the department is trying to determine how the images were made public.

“I can tell you I’m very troubled by it,” Lombardo said. “We have an internal investigation going as we speak as to how those photographs were obtained.”

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BigRedDog

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2017, 06:03:22 PM »

Did anybody check the grassy knoll

Exactly...   let's look at and debunk or accept all the 'theories' right now...   not wait 30 years ;) ;) ;)
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BigRedDog

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2017, 06:11:25 PM »

Try this... not sure if it will work or how long the link will stay active:


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nails

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2017, 06:16:11 PM »

Here's an interesting video from a taxi driver sitting at the Mandalay Bay hotel.

It's unedited and I think gives a little different scene than what the news is showing.
Notice the long periods of time between gunfire. TV news makes it sound like it was constant.
They must be editing the clips to take out the non-firing parts.
Also listen to the shots in the beginning. You can almost hear the difference between firing from the different windows. One burst is quieter, and one burst is very loud, at the same location. There are also echoes bouncing off the buildings, but I think you can hear what I'm talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBbOFwWquAw


If you read the comments under the video, your head will really spin.
Talk about conspiracy theories.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 06:21:24 PM by nails »
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BigRedDog

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2017, 06:28:59 PM »

Here's an interesting video from a taxi driver sitting at the Mandalay Bay hotel.

It's unedited and I think gives a little different scene than what the news is showing.
Notice the long periods of time between gunfire. TV news makes it sound like it was constant.
They must be editing the clips to take out the non-firing parts.
Also listen to the shots in the beginning. You can almost hear the difference between firing from the different windows. One burst is quieter, and one burst is very loud, at the same location. There are also echoes bouncing off the buildings, but I think you can hear what I'm talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBbOFwWquAw


If you read the comments under the video, your head will really spin.
Talk about conspiracy theories.

I think many people are reluctant to 'accept' what they see on the news today...

from any source, not just one or two particular sources.  Again, the Kennedy Assassination was my earliest 'personal' experience but you can go back a long way in time and find plenty of them.

Let's face it...

there are always a high number of people (may not be a majority but still a lot of people) that just don't 'accept' anything and everything we hear from the government sources and that includes the police.  It's too bad we can't all accept it as fact but it is the way we have gotten over the years :( :( :(
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Monroe Native

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2017, 08:03:49 PM »

I surmised correctly that contrary to the reports (from supposedly learned people in the crowd) that it was 'automatic weapons fire' from a select fire rifle, it wasn't.  It was a gas blowback semi-auto AR15 platform equipped with a readily  available slide fire butt stock you can buy for 70 bucks and any gun shop, Cabelas included or, online for that matter.

I told people when the videos first started surfacing that it wasn't an automatic weapon - and they told me I didn't know what I was talking about - it was clearly a machine gun.

When I can count the shots - that isn't an automatic weapon.  That is a semi-automatic with some kind of I don't care what I hit - but I want to put out a bunch of bullets - mostly legal POS device on it.

If they ban the sale of those - I have absolutely no issue with it.
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