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John Kopke

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China Trade War
« on: May 13, 2019, 06:55:30 PM »

Headlines: "Trump has declared a trade war against China". This is untrue. China has been at war with the United States, and much of the rest of the world for decades. All Trump has done different from our previous Presidents is that he has acknowledged the fact, said enough, and started pushing back, big time. The fact China has been eating our lunch for decades isn't a big mystery. The U.S. has lost millions of jobs to the Chinese over the past decades.

Further, trade restrictions, their high tariffs on our goods and our really low tariffs on theirs, exacerbates the trade imbalance. While Chinese stuff is cheap to Americans. the few American made products sold in China, after tariffs, are hugely expensive. Is it any wonder that we buy a ton more of their stuff then they buy ours?     

Folks, China became the economic power house it is today largely with our dollars and our jobs? Before,  when Clinton, Bush and Obama were running things they acknowledged there was something of a trade  imbalance (only around $ 500 billion a year), but if we played along with the Chinese they would like us and become another responsible member of the world community, in time. As for our lost manufacturing and other jobs to China we had to understand it's a global economy. Plus you get cheap stuff at Walmart. If you went from make $ 27.00 per hour in a factory to $ 12.00 an hour stocking shelves in Kroger there's little satisfaction.

I'm sure others will chip in on this topic and I think it's a discussion the whole country needs to address.


     

 
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John Kopke

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Re: China Trade War
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2019, 07:31:30 PM »

I think Trump just acknowledged how badly we were losing the Trade War that has been going on since Bill Clinton sold out to his friends from Wal Mart.

Ross Perot was right about there being a giant sucking sound.  He just didn't identify where the sucking was coming from.

I still don't like Tariffs - since they are just another tax on me - but I acknowledge someone needed to try something - and that is about the only play he has.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

John Kopke

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Re: China Trade War
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2019, 10:17:17 PM »

I think Trump just acknowledged how badly we were losing the Trade War that has been going on since Bill Clinton sold out to his friends from Wal Mart.

Ross Perot was right about there being a giant sucking sound.  He just didn't identify where the sucking was coming from.

I still don't like Tariffs - since they are just another tax on me - but I acknowledge someone needed to try something - and that is about the only play he has.

MN:

Bottom line is you don't want to pay more, but. But what? It ain't going to get better going along to get along. MN. I'm thinking you haven't looked into this matter much. honestly neither have I. But the bottom line is we have been getting hosed and I'm ok if we take a hit to ultimately win the war. If the farmers are taking a disproportional hit, I'm ok with taking some dollars from me to ease their pain. We're all in it together. And maybe we could buy a
little less Chinese stuff to support the cause.

Before I saved, I looked the post over. I had to admit it was quite a rant. Mission accomplished. 
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John Kopke

blue2

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Re: China Trade War
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2019, 09:17:50 AM »

I have a few union friends that always chastised me for buying China stuff.  They were the type to go without if the only product was made in China.  Not so anymore.  The fight got so bad that it wore them down to and they also bought china stuff because there weren't any choices.
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Monroe Native

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Re: China Trade War
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2019, 06:54:09 PM »

I have a few union friends that always chastised me for buying China stuff.  They were the type to go without if the only product was made in China.  Not so anymore.  The fight got so bad that it wore them down to and they also bought china stuff because there weren't any choices.

I was going to say - what choice do you have - when that is where stuff is made now?
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

John Kopke

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Re: China Trade War
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2019, 07:49:53 PM »

I was going to say - what choice do you have - when that is where stuff is made now?

Blue2 and MN, what you say is true. Over the last 3 decades we allowed China into our markets while we had virtually no access to their markets. Their products entering our markets were cheap, really cheap. Our products were expensive in China, but that didn't
really matter as their people didn't have any money anyway. As for a trade imbalance,
we lose, hugely. Over time the folks just gave up seeking to avoid Chinese made goods.
They're everywhere!

Well they aren't everywhere if you look. For example go down the cleaning products, laundry detergent aisle at the grocery store. Check where the products are manufactured. If they say distributed out of Cincinnati, they ain't produced in the U.S.A. If they were they'd say so.
Further, I tried to Google one of these "distributed out of Cincinnati" products to see where they were manufactured. Thirty plus minutes later I still didn't know. Why should it be so hard to find this out? My guess is they didn't want me to know and paid good money to make sure I didn't.   

     
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John Kopke

blue2

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Re: China Trade War
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2019, 10:11:10 PM »

the company I worked for made building products. We were required to put country of origin on every product.
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John Kopke

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Re: China Trade War
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2019, 07:45:13 PM »

I read couple things about China reacting to Trump calling them out on trade, They're fighting back in a number of ways. One way is to exhort the people not to make purchases of American products. Not claiming to be a China expert, but I expect most Chinese don't consider that a suggestion. They're even playing anti-American songs for heavens sakes.

So what are we doing? Well I don't see most Americans getting too worked up. My guess is a majority think "yes the Chinese have been screwing us bad", but Trump is working on it. Well I'll tell you what, if the majority of American people made even a medium effort to avoid buying Chinese products it wouldn't be long before the Chinese would be calling Trump, and Trump would be naming the tune.

But that won't happen, and you know why? That would be patriotic, it would have a tremendously positive effect upon our economy. Heaven forbid. The Dems would lash out! Trump's trying to start WW III. Trump is personally benefitting financially from his trade stance against China. I could go on. Hate Trump politics all the time. Get him, get him, get him! 

 
 
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John Kopke

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Re: China Trade War
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2019, 08:07:34 PM »

I read couple things about China reacting to Trump calling them out on trade, They're fighting back in a number of ways. One way is to exhort the people not to make purchases of American products. Not claiming to be a China expert, but I expect most Chinese don't consider that a suggestion. They're even playing anti-American songs for heavens sakes.

So what are we doing? Well I don't see most Americans getting too worked up. My guess is a majority think "yes the Chinese have been screwing us bad", but Trump is working on it. Well I'll tell you what, if the majority of American people made even a medium effort to avoid buying Chinese products it wouldn't be long before the Chinese would be calling Trump, and Trump would be naming the tune.

But that won't happen, and you know why? That would be patriotic, it would have a tremendously positive effect upon our economy. Heaven forbid. The Dems would lash out! Trump's trying to start WW III. Trump is personally benefitting financially from his trade stance against China. I could go on. Hate Trump politics all the time. Get him, get him, get him!

What you suggest is difficult to do - if you need things.

Example - my pump in the pressure washer puked.  Part label on it said - made in PRC.

I found another one - guess where it was made John?

So - I can be patriotic - and not have a working pressure washer - or I can buy what I can get.

Now - when everything starts costing 25% more - and remember - that is a tax passed onto the final buyers - I am pretty sure that Americans will start buying less of it.

My only question - in this game of Chicken - who is going to swerve first?  Or will both countries trot on into a recession?

On the good news side - the tariff policy should be great for the deficit.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

blue2

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Re: China Trade War
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2019, 08:10:40 PM »

I wanted to buy a red polo two days ago.  I looked at a dozen until I found one made in India and not China..
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Monroe Native

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Re: China Trade War
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2019, 08:13:49 PM »

I wanted to buy a red polo two days ago.  I looked at a dozen until I found one made in India and not China..

LOL.

Red is such a nasty color.

I prefer Maize or Blue, or some combination of the two.

Unfortunately one of the companies colors is red.....  oh well.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

John Kopke

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Re: China Trade War
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2019, 10:08:17 PM »

What you suggest is difficult to do - if you need things.

Example - my pump in the pressure washer puked.  Part label on it said - made in PRC.

I found another one - guess where it was made John?

So - I can be patriotic - and not have a working pressure washer - or I can buy what I can get.

Now - when everything starts costing 25% more - and remember - that is a tax passed onto the final buyers - I am pretty sure that Americans will start buying less of it.

My only question - in this game of Chicken - who is going to swerve first?  Or will both countries trot on into a recession?

On the good news side - the tariff policy should be great for the deficit.

MN:

You gave one example where your were cornered to buy a Chinese spare part for your Chinese made washer. So you justify it because you were cornered. OK. I'll buy that.
But what about the countless other items you buy each month where you have a choice
and choose Chinese because it's 10% cheaper. The Chinese government tells their people
don't buy American, and it is so. 

China sells us like 6 times what we sell them. We end up with $ 500 billion dollar yearly trade deficit. On top of this they steal another couple hundred billion a year in intellectual property. What's not to like?
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John Kopke

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Re: China Trade War
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2019, 05:46:36 PM »

MN:

You gave one example where your were cornered to buy a Chinese spare part for your Chinese made washer. So you justify it because you were cornered. OK. I'll buy that.
But what about the countless other items you buy each month where you have a choice
and choose Chinese because it's 10% cheaper. The Chinese government tells their people
don't buy American, and it is so. 

China sells us like 6 times what we sell them. We end up with $ 500 billion dollar yearly trade deficit. On top of this they steal another couple hundred billion a year in intellectual property. What's not to like?

Actually - I bought a Power Washer that is from a US Company.

It has a Honda Engine on it - most likely built in the United States.

The frame - who the heck knows.

The Pump - yes - you know the pump came from China.

Last I checked this stuff got assembled in the USA.

I did as well as I could - and yes - I'd like it to work again - so looks like I'll be buying another China pump.

When it came time to buy my last pair of Red Wing boots - I threw in the extra 25 and got the made in USA boots - though I wonder where the content comes from.

Face it - we are a Global Economy now.  The US is not the cheapest place to build or design stuff anymore.  We pay people more to do nothing - than most countries pay them to work.  Hard to compete with that formula.

Now - a 25% Tariff may - over many years - cause more things to be built here.  That would be a good thing, but it isn't going to happen overnight.  It takes a long time to purchase and tool up manufacturing facilities, and hire and train workers.  What makes it even harder - it is hard to find people who want to work in those type of jobs here.  Kind of sad if you ask me.

Two things are for sure to come out of this John.

One - the United States Treasury is going to collect a bunch of taxes to put in their coffers.
Two - People in the United States is going to pay more for what we buy.

I just hope it doesn't throw us into another Recession / Depression - because as you no doubt know that is historically one of the outcomes when countries start putting on Tariffs and participating in Trade Wars.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

Professor H

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Re: China Trade War
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2019, 11:32:00 AM »

People forget the Trade issue is also about intellectual property and ownership

China is feeling the pain as many people are seeing this and moving their production to other developing countries -   Vietnam is a great benefactor as well as Taiwan  and -  I know its a shock - but some are actually considering moving back to the US.
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John Kopke

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Re: China Trade War
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2019, 08:56:48 PM »

Actually - I bought a Power Washer that is from a US Company.

It has a Honda Engine on it - most likely built in the United States.

The frame - who the heck knows.

The Pump - yes - you know the pump came from China.

Last I checked this stuff got assembled in the USA.

I did as well as I could - and yes - I'd like it to work again - so looks like I'll be buying another China pump.

When it came time to buy my last pair of Red Wing boots - I threw in the extra 25 and got the made in USA boots - though I wonder where the content comes from.

Face it - we are a Global Economy now.  The US is not the cheapest place to build or design stuff anymore.  We pay people more to do nothing - than most countries pay them to work.  Hard to compete with that formula.

Now - a 25% Tariff may - over many years - cause more things to be built here.  That would be a good thing, but it isn't going to happen overnight.  It takes a long time to purchase and tool up manufacturing facilities, and hire and train workers.  What makes it even harder - it is hard to find people who want to work in those type of jobs here.  Kind of sad if you ask me.

Two things are for sure to come out of this John.

One - the United States Treasury is going to collect a bunch of taxes to put in their coffers.
Two - People in the United States is going to pay more for what we buy.

I just hope it doesn't throw us into another Recession / Depression - because as you no doubt know that is historically one of the outcomes when countries start putting on Tariffs and participating in Trade Wars.

MN:

Remember, we're in a trade war with China. As it goes on American co. will start to source out of countries like Vietnam etc., countries unlike China who don't steal our intellectual property as a matter of course.
on any scale like China.
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John Kopke
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