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Abdul-Nasir Rahim

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The Pakistan Problem
« on: August 03, 2007, 05:11:36 PM »

Barack Obama gave a policy address this week and has been taking flak, mostly from the right, over some of his comments.  Obama said that if there were actionable evidence that al-Qaeda terrorists were hiding in the mountains of Pakistan, and the government there was unwilling to take action themselves, that he would mount a unilateral american military operation to capture them. He would send troops into Pakistan, but he would not use nuclear weapons.

These comments have enraged some, because they see the Musharraf government as near collapse, and they think an american invasion would de-stabilize the region, and could cause the fundamentalist islamics to overthrow Musharraf and take control of a nuclear power. They have called Obama naive and so have some of his democratic opponents like Chris Dodd. The Pakistan government is furious at Obama. 

But is Obama wrong?  Here we have spent years obliterating Afghanistan and Iraq when the bad guys are said to be hiding in Pakistan, with the full knowledge of the government there. So we act tough against Iraq but cower in fear against Pakistan, just because one country has nukes and the other doesn't? Obama wants to end the war in Iraq and then concentrate on the place where the terrorists "actually" are. Granted Pakistan is techincally our ally, but Musharraf is a strongman.
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Fred Munny

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Re: The Pakistan Problem
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2007, 05:23:43 PM »

Obama is obviously a greenhorn.  Nobody in their right mind would ever suggest military action as their first option.  You ALWAYS recommend diplomatic means so you don't rock the boat with everyone in your "coalition".  I wouldn't want to elect somebody whose answer to counterterrorism is military force when we've already got someone like that. 

Here's what brah JohnWayneBama should've said..

"The answer to the question is simple: If the USA encounters one more domest attack from bin Laden then we will nuke Pakistan to the stone age.  Nation of Islam, get your house in order or we
will punish all of you for the rotten few who **** with us.  That's just the approach I'd take, anyway.  They don't want us there? No prob.  Don't make us come there cuz if we do then it will only be once and it will be O'bomba with the commander in chief canopener peeling back the lid on Uncle Einstein's instant nuclear can of whoop ***, dig.  Troops not going to play hackysack with you stupid fuckers under my watch."

 >:( >:( >:(
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Semper Fi

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Re: The Pakistan Problem
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2007, 05:39:04 PM »

Obama is obviously a greenhorn.  Nobody in their right mind would ever suggest military action as their first option.  You ALWAYS recommend diplomatic means so you don't rock the boat with everyone in your "coalition".  I wouldn't want to elect somebody whose answer to counterterrorism is military force when we've already got someone like that. 

Here's what brah JohnWayneBama should've said..

"The answer to the question is simple: If the USA encounters one more domest attack from bin Laden then we will nuke Pakistan to the stone age.  Nation of Islam, get your house in order or we
will punish all of you for the rotten few who **** with us.  That's just the approach I'd take, anyway.  They don't want us there? No prob.  Don't make us come there cuz if we do then it will only be once and it will be O'bomba with the commander in chief canopener peeling back the lid on Uncle Einstein's instant nuclear can of whoop ***, dig.  Troops not going to play hackysack with you stupid fuckers under my watch."

 >:( >:( >:(


I'm with you Munny. I'm locked and loaded!

One of the best posts to date.  8)

I didn't know Einstein was your Uncle.  ;D

Mr. Rahim, The Trojans are going to put some of that whoop*** on the Tractors and the Pioneers this year.  ;D
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Lady Arbella

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Re: The Pakistan Problem
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2007, 06:53:45 PM »

Quote
"The answer to the question is simple: If the USA encounters one more domest attack from bin Laden then we will nuke Pakistan to the stone age.  Nation of Islam, get your house in order or we
will punish all of you for the rotten few who **** with us.  That's just the approach I'd take, anyway.  They don't want us there? No prob.  Don't make us come there cuz if we do then it will only be once and it will be O'bomba with the commander in chief canopener peeling back the lid on Uncle Einstein's instant nuclear can of whoop ***, dig.  Troops not going to play hackysack with you stupid fuckers under my watch."


Fred..........that was absolutely BRILLIANT!!!!
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SMASH

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Re: The Pakistan Problem
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2007, 01:29:20 PM »

Council on Foreign Relations members. The authors and supporters of the NAU.

Cheaney
Obama
H. Clinton
Fred Thompson
Geo. Bush
J. Biden
Etc.
Look them up.

The Republican/Democrat Regime, there is no difference in any of them. They are all interchangeable. One World Order puppets pulling our strings. Get rid of all of them.
All are complicit in violating the Constitution and ignoring the advice of our founding fathers.
Stay the hell out of other countries business. We have been bouncing around the world playing cops and robbers for years accomplishing nothing but getting good men and women in our military killed. For what? Why have we been fighting the same enemy for 25 years?
Where was the public out cry to zap these freaks when 241 of MY unit were blown up in Lebanon on 23 OCT 83? Same enemy, same tactics.
Multi-National Peace Keeping Force? Peace for who?
A lot of people completely forget all the Marines that were killed prior to the bombing. We were getting sniped at for weeks. Rocket, artillery, RPG's, grenade attacks way before the bombing.
Handcuffed by a R.O.E. that got men killed. For what? Yasser Arafat and the PLO? Or some other sick freaks mind of how the complexion of the middle east should look? At who's expense?

This has got to stop! I hate to say this because I have nothing but contempt for him, but, do as FDR did and unleash TOTAL WAR. Accept nothing but unconditional surrender, and come home, and stay home. Defend THIS nation not Saudi Arabia and Mexico and stop provoking these unneeded wars.
Bin Laden, as with Hitler and Tojo, can be beaten into irrelevance and left in his cold *** cave to die with his mule. Hell for all we know he may already be dead?
If so how will they all lie their way out of that one?
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The Fuzz

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Re: The Pakistan Problem
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2007, 03:27:38 PM »

I think we should forewarn the Pakistani government like we did during the Clinton administration that we see him and are going to get him.  Oh crap....wait, that backfired on us because the government leaked it to the tribesman hiding him to begin with. 

I think I agree with Obama.....too bad HC will crusify him for what should have been done by her husband....but was too busy gettin' head in a hall way.
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riar

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Re: The Pakistan Problem
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2007, 03:58:32 PM »

Too late to do anything now. We're trillions in the whole. We've been under the notion like the olden days, way olden days that by fighting them on their turf we keep them out of this country. Well if everyone would have paid attention to Bin Laden when he stated he will break the U.S., we would see things in a different light. By keeping us going in Iraq, he has been allowed the time and energy to build up where we should have been all along while rabble rousers of a different sort of Al Quaeda kept us going in Iraq draining our coffers dry.

A smart leader would have learned by someone else's mistakes and gone a different route. Look  what the Taliban did to Russia. Russia fought in Afghanistan for years and went home with their tail between their legs and broke.

There is more than one way to skin a cat and Bin Laden didn't have to do much but sit back and let whoever the factions are in Iraq keep us busy like a cat with a mouse. Besides the Taliban may be in Pakistan or Afghanistan, Saudi's are the real enemy. The quicker we get away from oil, the better. They only have power because of that. Without oil they do not have a big infrastructure to fall back on. Saudi Arabia would shrivel up and die in the desert. They have not invested in themselves in many other ways. It's there weak point.
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Greg Chamberlain

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Re: The Pakistan Problem
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2007, 04:44:34 PM »

For some reason, I think Fred was being sarcastic.
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caspar

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Re: The Pakistan Problem
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2007, 05:19:05 PM »

Mr. Rahim,

I know this is off topic, but I am going to ask.

I see that you are from Dearborn. Are you a Tractor fan, Pioneer fan, or neither?
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Mike Ingels

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Re: The Pakistan Problem
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2007, 08:15:24 PM »

Abdul-Nasir!

A lot of people critique the war from the dovish side by saying that we would better spend the money and effort at home.  That argument appeals to the left side of the political spectrum and some moderates frustrated with the way the war is heading.

But I think that the most effective long-term criticism will come from the centrist/hawkish side.  Bush failed not because the war was illegitimate, but because he didn't fight it with enough troops, cash and international support.  He let Osama get away and let Iraq spin out of control because he wasn't tough enough.

I just think that Americans are mostly centrist people who want - at core - a strong national defense.  A peace-oriented Democrat Party might win the next election, but over the long-term, I think that a tough-minded national defense policy is what the American people will ultimately want.

So, I think that it is very important that the Democrat Party steals the issue of national defense away from the Republicans.  It has been a cornerstone of the Republican Party since the end of the Vietnam War.  And now it is up for grabs.

So a Democratic nominee, I think, needs to stay as moderate as possible in the Democratic primaries/caucuses and then veer to the hawkish side in the general election.

The problem with Obama is that he is completely identified with the doves.  He is a pull-the-troops-out-now kind of guy.  And, yet, he is still 20 points behind Hillary in the Democrat Party polls.  He is too far to the left and does not sound legitimate when he makes a statement like the one you refer to.

Oh, and I think that an invasion of Pakistan would be a disaster.  Let's be patient and fight terrorism in a cold and calculated manner.
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Frenchfry

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Re: The Pakistan Problem
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2007, 09:24:59 PM »

It’s the occupation that is hurting us.
We should have taken care of business as best we could and left.
I believe Obama has damaged his chance to become President.
I pretty much agree with Smash except for the total war part.

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This is what I see when I visit:

"Sorry Frenchfry, you are banned from posting and sending personal messages on this forum.
This ban is not set to expire."

No emails, no warnings, no communication whatsoever...just that ban

May be what happened to the other libs as well.

I guess disabling the report to admin link only on the lib side was indicative of the slanted games they play.

Enjoy your spoon-fed Faux News type right-wing echo-chamber.

Edited to add:

This is the only way to answer some of the questions posed:

1) I did nothing to warrant the banishment, it's political.

2) It's the router that's blocked but considering all the nonsense right-wing games being played by those running the site...it's just not worth it to bypass the banishment block.

3) The moron stalkers from MT contemplating a visit will be considered a threat and can expect to have a bad day if they act upon those idiotic thoughts.

bumfunkegypt@live.com

the nosh

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Re: The Pakistan Problem
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2007, 12:14:29 PM »

caspar...i think he is a fan of fatoosh and shish kafta!  ;)
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SMASH

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Re: The Pakistan Problem
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2007, 07:27:46 PM »

Frenchfry, the only way to win is total war.

If you will, name for me one war that was won without the demand of complete surrender or total annihilation?

This nation has been in some form of conflict every 20 years since it's birth. First the wars and invasions were brought to us in an attempt to break the will of the people and crush our REPUBLIC.

Then we fought amongst ourselves to sort out our own issues.

Then we continued the building of our nation. All involved complete surrender or annihilation. Remember during our Civil War we lost one fifth of our population. Whole towns disappeared with their inhabitants!

Then we started building our EMPIRE. One that can not be sustained. We are spread too thin.

All along the way ignoring the advise of our founding fathers and mutilating the documents that made us the envy of the world. Envied so much so that the most successful and richest nations of the world today have a similar form of government as us. All of which also are devolving into socialist nations of some sort.

We need to get our collective butts home, regroup, refocus, then commence to getting OUR business together. Rather than running all around the world playing rent a cop. Leave that to the U.N.; right after they relocate to France. While we're at it dissolve the Council on Foreign Relations and send every current and past member of that organization packing with the folks at the U.N.. That should thin the herd of political hacks in Washington right along with narrowing down the current crop of presidential candidates. Especially the so called "front runners" in BOTH parties. Treasonist S.O.B.'s.
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riar

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Re: The Pakistan Problem
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2007, 08:55:24 PM »

Barack Obama gave a policy address this week and has been taking flak, mostly from the right, over some of his comments.  Obama said that if there were actionable evidence that al-Qaeda terrorists were hiding in the mountains of Pakistan, and the government there was unwilling to take action themselves, that he would mount a unilateral american military operation to capture them. He would send troops into Pakistan, but he would not use nuclear weapons.

These comments have enraged some, because they see the Musharraf government as near collapse, and they think an american invasion would de-stabilize the region, and could cause the fundamentalist islamics to overthrow Musharraf and take control of a nuclear power. They have called Obama naive and so have some of his democratic opponents like Chris Dodd. The Pakistan government is furious at Obama. 

But is Obama wrong?  Here we have spent years obliterating Afghanistan and Iraq when the bad guys are said to be hiding in Pakistan, with the full knowledge of the government there. So we act tough against Iraq but cower in fear against Pakistan, just because one country has nukes and the other doesn't? Obama wants to end the war in Iraq and then concentrate on the place where the terrorists "actually" are. Granted Pakistan is techincally our ally, but Musharraf is a strongman.

We're pretty much out of money and fresh troops to be taking on anyone. That's why it's absurd to think we can just go an do that without a draft. We've almost reached our spending limit of 9 trillion dollars. The push is on to urge congress to up the limit so Bush can spend more. We haven't obliterated Afghanistan for sure, and Iraq is ongoing because private industry is sucking up the last of the U.S. Treasury and needs more time at it.

Mussharif is the only thing between us and them. There is a lot of unrest in the streets of Pakistan right how. The Taliban is at their borders. All it will take is for someone to hit Mussharif and there would be an overthrow of a government with nuclear power. Not a good scenario.

We've been pumping money into Pakistan for schools so kids don't end up in Al Quaeda camps and so that the next generation won't be as apt to think all Americans are evil. This isn't the only bunch out to equal us.
Putin in Russia is ex KGB. They want to be a superpower again and have been spying on us like the cold war was on again. Ditto for China. Now China's more ominous to me than anything. That entire government is a facade. They are a horrible, torturous, communist regime that isn't above marching on anyone. They attempted to advance on Taiwan this summer and we didn't hear about it did we? They present themselves as quasi capitalists, but na, they're ruthless communists. We have no business doing business with them. I don't even like the Olympics being held there. 
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the nosh

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Re: The Pakistan Problem
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2007, 09:35:23 PM »

Obama is obviously a greenhorn.  Nobody in their right mind would ever suggest military action as their first option.  You ALWAYS recommend diplomatic means so you don't rock the boat with everyone in your "coalition".  I wouldn't want to elect somebody whose answer to counterterrorism is military force when we've already got someone like that. 

Here's what brah JohnWayneBama should've said..

"The answer to the question is simple: If the USA encounters one more domest attack from bin Laden then we will nuke Pakistan to the stone age.  Nation of Islam, get your house in order or we
will punish all of you for the rotten few who **** with us.  That's just the approach I'd take, anyway.  They don't want us there? No prob.  Don't make us come there cuz if we do then it will only be once and it will be O'bomba with the commander in chief canopener peeling back the lid on Uncle Einstein's instant nuclear can of whoop ***, dig.  Troops not going to play hackysack with you stupid fuckers under my watch."

 >:( >:( >:(

you da man!!! enough is enough with these jackasses.
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