Print

[zard0z]

The world's rush to embrace biofuels is causing a spike in the price of corn and other crops and could worsen water shortages and force poor communities off their land, a U.N. official said Wednesday.



http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/01/23/biofuels.fears.ap/index.html

[ell]

The world's rush to embrace biofuels is causing a spike in the price of corn and other crops and could worsen water shortages and force poor communities off their land, a U.N. official said Wednesday.



http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/01/23/biofuels.fears.ap/index.html

I've also been told that many biofuels cannot be shipped via pipeline, so they have to be trucked.

[mohamed_kalij]

We were also told that cigarettes are not addictive and there are WMDs in Iraq. I have since stopped believing every piece of garbage for-profit companies like CNN, tobacco companies, and Big Oil tells me and let the facts speak for themselves.
Cellulosic ethanol --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulosic_ethanol
The technology is in development, but is very close. With cellulosic ethanol, there would be no need to worry about food crops being grown for fuel and raising prices. I do not have all the facts on the drawbacks of this process, and if somebody would like to point some out, I would be happy to reevaluate my opinion, but it sounds like the best new fuel so far. So, the problem with rising food crop prices is solved (as far as I know)
Also, if something doesn't work, fix it. If the current pipes won't carry the new fuel, then we need to fix the pipes or replace them. Fuel processing companies that will be making biofuel will take care of that because it would make them more money. Problem solved.
The reason for biofuel is the demand for an alternative for storing energy cheaply and efficiently for transportation. Oil is a bad idea and has many shortcomings. Biofuel is the next best alternative. If anyone has anything better, I am open to discussion.

[zard0z]

I have since stopped believing every piece of garbage for-profit companies like CNN, tobacco companies, and Big Oil tells me and let the facts speak for themselves.

OK, explain to me how the United Nation is a "for-profit" company...

[mohamed_kalij]

OK, explain to me how the United Nation is a "for-profit" company...

The UN is not a for-profit company. OPEC stands to gain a lot by convincing the UN to say that biofuel is bad. The people in the UN are just that, people. People can be made to say whatever you want with enough money, especially the people in the UN. I have no proof that that is what happened. However, I did counter their statement with an alternate method. This means that they did not present the entire truth. If some idiot with an internet connection, like me for example, can do a quick Google search and counter their claims, then you have to ask why they did not come to the same conclusion or present reasons for the alternate conclusion to be a bad idea. Who influenced the UN to ignore facts? Or, who stands to gain from influencing CNN to not report all the facts about the UN's report?

Besides, I never said the UN is out to make a profit, I said that the company that reported the story is.

[ell]

Here is a link that discusses the situation on biofuel pipelines.  What I got out of it is that it may be mostly an interpretation of the existing standard.

http://bulktransporter.com/mag/transportation_phmsa_requests_comments/

[marilyn.monroe]

Corn grows in a lot of places around this country, and I see an opportunity for locally based biofuel industries! Grow the fuel, refine it, & sell it locally. Michigan could use the boost to our economy, & it could light a creative fire for the auto industry.

[mohamed_kalij]

Corn grows in a lot of places around this country, and I see an opportunity for locally based biofuel industries! Grow the fuel, refine it, & sell it locally. Michigan could use the boost to our economy, & it could light a creative fire for the auto industry.

I completely agree with your idea of growing our own fuel. I would love it if we could achieve energy independence. I think that should be one of our main goals as a state and country (along with many others). Corn can be used for this purpose. However, it might be more efficient to grow switchgrass for fuel crops.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel#Efficiency_of_common_crops
I am not a farmer and I do not know how easy it is to grow a particular crop in a particular area. If there are any farmers or botanists or any kind of experts who have the facts, I would love to hear them. It just sounds like corn is a great backup plan for biofuel once we start using it for our cars. Lets say demand runs higher then predicted or fuel crops die from a natural event. We could then use our corn to create biofuel and offset the shortage.

[zard0z]

If some idiot with an internet connection, like me for example(funny ), can do a quick Google search and counter their claims,

Well, that's because the Internet is filled and I mean FILLED with tons of biased information on anything you can think of...Not to say it's wrong, but the UN simply can't state that "oh well we found this website that tells us something different so what this says must be wrong"...I bet if you tried right now you can find ten pages of positive and ten pages of negative of any topic with in a few minutes...The Internet is not the end all of information, only a broad based arena where anyone can put their two cents in and be heard...And most of them don't know what the hell they are talking about, they just want to be heard...LOL

I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out the flaws of biased Internet information...We all fall victim to it everyday we come here to this forum...LOL

I want SO badly to move away from fossil fuels, but the current infrastructure doesn't support anything else...We have to change that first, we have to change the mindset of the people so that they will go for it...But, the people are uber stubborn in this country and we hold to the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude when it comes to change in our daily lives...

[mohamed_kalij]

Well, that's because the Internet is filled and I mean FILLED with tons of biased information on anything you can think of...Not to say it's wrong, but the UN simply can't state that "oh well we found this website that tells us something different so what this says must be wrong"...I bet if you tried right now you can find ten pages of positive and ten pages of negative of any topic with in a few minutes...The Internet is not the end all of information, only a broad based arena where anyone can put their two cents in and be heard...And most of them don't know what the hell they are talking about, they just want to be heard...LOL

I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out the flaws of biased Internet information...We all fall victim to it everyday we come here to this forum...LOL

Yeah, I keep forgetting that. I am just paranoid by nature. Sorry.

I still think any arguments pointing out all the bad of alternative fuels and none of the bad of oil are the result of the big oil companies in some way. I also think that most of these problems can be solved with a little research and hard work. That is just my opinion though.

[zard0z]

I still think any arguments pointing out all the bad of alternative fuels and none of the bad of oil are the result of the big oil companies in some way. I also think that most of these problems can be solved with a little research and hard work. That is just my opinion though.

 Oh, I know what you mean, and I feel the same way...Big oil is nothing but big trouble...

[kuzco_77]

That is exactly why any English teacher will tell you that you CAN NOT use the internet as a source.  Most do not even want you to use it even if it comes for a scientific site.

Well, that's because the Internet is filled and I mean FILLED with tons of biased information on anything you can think of...Not to say it's wrong, but the UN simply can't state that "oh well we found this website that tells us something different so what this says must be wrong"...I bet if you tried right now you can find ten pages of positive and ten pages of negative of any topic with in a few minutes...The Internet is not the end all of information, only a broad based arena where anyone can put their two cents in and be heard...And most of them don't know what the hell they are talking about, they just want to be heard...LOL

I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out the flaws of biased Internet information...We all fall victim to it everyday we come here to this forum...LOL

I want SO badly to move away from fossil fuels, but the current infrastructure doesn't support anything else...We have to change that first, we have to change the mindset of the people so that they will go for it...But, the people are uber stubborn in this country and we hold to the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude when it comes to change in our daily lives...