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[old salt]

PX,

I'll take free market capitalism over socialism any day.  If you can't say the same, why are you in this country?

And what has socialism ever done for the world, whereas the free market has given us........................just look around.  And maybe I'm wearing rose colored glasses, or maybe I'm an optimist that appreciates all we have.  Attitude and perception and all that.

[PXaiver]

I'll bet your mind would change if you had the opportunity to make well over that amount!

Actually it wouldn't.  If I ever win the lottery I'm planning on giving the government around 75% of it provided that they spend the "extra" I give them on the correct things like health care, education, and the rest.  If not, I'm taking the lump sum and moving to Canada or abroad. Actually I hear Venezuela is pretty nice.   I would be perfectly ok with paying 50% or more of my wages to the government provided they do the right thing with my cash.

PX,

I'll take free market capitalism over socialism any day.  If you can't say the same, why are you in this country?

And what has socialism ever done for the world, whereas the free market has given us........................just look around.  And maybe I'm wearing rose colored glasses, or maybe I'm an optimist that appreciates all we have.  Attitude and perception and all that.

If I could move to another country right now I would, trust me.  I've had my eye on Canada since I was in the Navy and 9-11 hit.  The only problem is that I don't have a degree and I couldn't make a living there because it's really hard to get a work visa.  Also I don't know another language or else I'd try my luck at Europe. 

[Griff]

$200,000 a year net.  Anything above and beyond that goes to the government for socialized health care, education, infrastructure repair, the space program, and right on down the line.

If my marginal rate above $200,000.00 annually is 100%, where is my desire to earn more than that $200,000.00 annually going to come from?

When JFK took office, the marginal rate was 75%--he and Congress agreed to lower it to 45%, with the ensuing boom in the economy. Your plan will make us all paupers.

The proper role of government is NOT to provide all things equally (i.e., we all are beholden for our 3 square and a cot) but to PROTECT all things equally. You and I each have the equal presence before the courts, the poll station. We do not have equal access to someone else's labor, treasure or life.

I believe that I have shown why socialism doesn't work while capitalism does work--because under socialism the workers don't realize a reward, while under capitalism the workers get rewarded.

peace,
Griff

[PXaiver]

If my marginal rate above $200,000.00 annually is 100%, where is my desire to earn more than that $200,000.00 annually going to come from?

When JFK took office, the marginal rate was 75%--he and Congress agreed to lower it to 45%, with the ensuing boom in the economy. Your plan will make us all paupers.

The proper role of government is NOT to provide all things equally (i.e., we all are beholden for our 3 square and a cot) but to PROTECT all things equally. You and I each have the equal presence before the courts, the poll station. We do not have equal access to someone else's labor, treasure or life.

I believe that I have shown why socialism doesn't work while capitalism does work--because under socialism the workers don't realize a reward, while under capitalism the workers get rewarded.

peace,
Griff

Well then someone who is working at McD's should be making more money than I do.  Trust me I've done both jobs and those fast food guys deserve a lot more than what their getting.  The problem with socialism is that people can't look at the greater good.  All they care about is what THEY have as opposed to what EVERYONE has.  Frankly I'm willing to give up most of my pay if I know it's going to help others get along.

Death seed blind man's greed
Poets' starving children bleed
Nothing he's got he really needs
Twenty first century schizoid man
- King Crimson "21st Century Schiziod Man"

[El Guapo]

PX:  I would be perfectly ok with paying 50% or more of my wages to the government provided they do the right thing with my cash.



And there in lies the problem!  So insteaduse your hard earned money to help LOCALLY.  Give 50% of the money you make to a poor kid right here in Monroe.  Come on, put your money where your mouth is!

[PXaiver]

PX:  I would be perfectly ok with paying 50% or more of my wages to the government provided they do the right thing with my cash.



And there in lies the problem!  So insteaduse your hard earned money to help LOCALLY.  Give 50% of the money you make to a poor kid right here in Monroe.  Come on, put your money where your mouth is!

I have no problems with that.  Point me in the direction of the kid and I'll give him 50% of almost nothing.  Granted that's my own damn fault for getting credit cards and student loans at 18, but I'd be glad to help out another human being, and I often do.

[Griff]

I have no problems with that.  Point me in the direction of the kid and I'll give him 50% of almost nothing.  Granted that's my own damn fault for getting credit cards and student loans at 18, but I'd be glad to help out another human being, and I often do.

For help with everday money problems go here:
http://www.daveramsey.com

Yeah, he sells stuff. You don't have to buy any of it to do the program.

If you don't have the bread to help YOU, you don't have the bread to help someone else.

Get out of debt, then save some for a rainy day. Then, start to give... give as much as you want... give till it hurts...

But don't think that you can legislate the redistribution of wealth and have it be an enduring situation. Look at the old Soviet Union...

You need people that get up in the morning, leave the cave, go out and kill some food and drag it back.

peace,
Griff

[El Guapo]

I have no problems with that.  Point me in the direction of the kid and I'll give him 50% of almost nothing.  Granted that's my own damn fault for getting credit cards and student loans at 18, but I'd be glad to help out another human being, and I often do.

I think we all do.  It's a lot easier for someone who has nothing to ask for someone else to give them something.  That's why I say that if you made more than your "threshold amount"  I think you would think differently.  Griff is right.  Why would anyone want to make more than $200,000.  Right now, the government benefits far more by those who make millions and pay taxes on those millions.  If the cap was 200k than there wouldn't be anymore money to send to the government.  No one would actually make more than that, so the gov't would get 100% of nothing.

[old salt]

PX,
I'll give you credit for honesty and a true belief in your fellow man (along with a moral understanding).

I wish you luck in that you can move to a socialist country and find work.

Odds are, we're going to have that here first, and you still won't find work.

[John Kopke]

Frankly I'm willing to give up most of my pay if I know it's going to help others get along.

Pxaivier:

You're willing? So what is the great obstacle that is stopping you?  Can't find anybody
that needs help getting along?  Or in truth, is the reality that you're all about compassion
and helping your fellow man as long as someone else picks up the tab? I think we both
know the answer.

[PXaiver]

For help with everday money problems go here:
http://www.daveramsey.com

Yeah, he sells stuff. You don't have to buy any of it to do the program.

If you don't have the bread to help YOU, you don't have the bread to help someone else.

Get out of debt, then save some for a rainy day. Then, start to give... give as much as you want... give till it hurts...

But don't think that you can legislate the redistribution of wealth and have it be an enduring situation. Look at the old Soviet Union...

You need people that get up in the morning, leave the cave, go out and kill some food and drag it back.

peace,
Griff

I appreciate the help, but I have a path that I'm currently on.  Either way, I'm willing to give half of whatever I have right now.  As for the Soviet Union, well that didn't work because the leaders didn't have moral integrity.  I've said it before if people would see the forest for the trees then socialism would work.  The main problem with capitalism, and human nature for that matter, is greed.  I'm willing to sacrifice what I have for others to do well.  All we have to do is get over ourselves.  Once we see the big picture and understand that a cooperative society is what got us to this evolutionary level, who knows what would happen.  Have your religion, have your toys, but also understand that other people should have theirs.  I have stated before that I HATE the idea of money.  I think it should be abolished.  Once everyone understands that we need each other to survive as a species then the problems will be fixed.

[John Kopke]

I appreciate the help, but I have a path that I'm currently on.  Either way, I'm willing to give half of whatever I have right now.  As for the Soviet Union, well that didn't work because the leaders didn't have moral integrity.  I've said it before if people would see the forest for the trees then socialism would work.  The main problem with capitalism, and human nature for that matter, is greed.  I'm willing to sacrifice what I have for others to do well.  All we have to do is get over ourselves.  Once we see the big picture and understand that a cooperative society is what got us to this evolutionary level, who knows what would happen.  Have your religion, have your toys, but also understand that other people should have theirs.  I have stated before that I HATE the idea of money.  I think it should be abolished.  Once everyone understands that we need each other to survive as a species then the problems will be fixed.

Pxavier:

Frankly, your just nuts. For example. There were 100 concrete blocks that needed to be moved
from Point A to Point B. In order to do the job you spend 8 hours moving 80 blocks and another
guy spends 2 hours moving 20 blocks. At the end of the day they hand you $ 200. Would you
split it 50-50, or are you greedy?

[PXaiver]

Pxavier:

Frankly, your just nuts. For example. There were 100 concrete blocks that needed to be moved
from Point A to Point B. In order to do the job you spend 8 hours moving 80 blocks and another
guy spends 2 hours moving 20 blocks. At the end of the day they hand you $ 200. Would you
split it 50-50, or are you greedy?

Why would they hand me the money?  Wouldn't they just pay us seperately?  I would split it 50/50 because everyone has an off day.  Do you feel that your company gets their moneys worth out of you every day?

Oh, and as for being nuts...that's a possibility, but I like to consider myself an idealist.  Sometimes the only thing that keeps me going is hope. 

If you want, I'll disclose my financial information and tell you what my job entails.  Then you tell me if what I'm getting paid seems correct.  Some may say I'm overpaid, but most will think I'm under paid.  Personally I think I'm getting over paid for my job.  And yes, I told my boss that and asked for a pay cut, but the company won't allow it.

[ell]

Exactly.
Look what his NAFTA did for our jobs.

This was George senior's baby:

Bush's government, along with the Progressive Conservative Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney, spearheaded the negotiations of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). Bush's primary negotiator was Trade Secretary Carla Anderson Hills. While initial signing was possible during his term, negotiations made slow but steady progress during Bush's term. President Clinton would go on to make the passage of NAFTA a priority for his administration, despite its conservative and Republican roots — with the addition of two side agreements — to achieve its passage in 1993.

[John Kopke]

Why would they hand me the money?  Wouldn't they just pay us seperately?  I would split it 50/50 because everyone has an off day.  Do you feel that your company gets their moneys worth out of you every day?

Oh, and as for being nuts...that's a possibility, but I like to consider myself an idealist.  Sometimes the only thing that keeps me going is hope. 

If you want, I'll disclose my financial information and tell you what my job entails.  Then you tell me if what I'm getting paid seems correct.  Some may say I'm overpaid, but most will think I'm under paid.  Personally I think I'm getting over paid for my job.  And yes, I told my boss that and asked for a pay cut, but the company won't allow it.

P:

Asked for a pay cut? Pxavier, life is not meant to be lived to become part of the lowest common
denominator. If you want to make a difference in this world become someone others can emulate.
You can't change unfortunate peoples lives by handing them money. They need inspiration,
motivation, and the message that they were graced by God to have been born in a country
where their opportunities are unlimited. Get rid of this victim mentality.