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Author Topic: DNA samples to be taken from polygamous sect kids this week  (Read 2266 times)

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supermom

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Re: DNA samples to be taken from polygamous sect kids this week
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2008, 12:09:03 PM »

I believe they should treat this group just like any other citizens who would be caught up in this mess. If the adults are having sex with underage children, they should have to answer for that. If mothers or fathers are putting their children in abusive situations, they should have to answer for that. I know they have the practice of multiple wives, that is not the point. It is the treatment of the children that concerns me. Any parent who allows abuse or contributes to the abuse, should have their children removed. DNA is a great place to start to identify which children biologically belong to which parents. Then the process can evolve from there. Those poor children. Hopefully those in the most danger will be protected and they parents will get the help they need.
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chris

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Re: DNA samples to be taken from polygamous sect kids this week
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2008, 02:30:20 PM »

i watched larry king the other night, when he interviewed three of the women.  he kept asking them if they knew that polygamy was against the law and that they were breaking the law.  they kept changing the subject, and acting like they are above the law and dont have to obey the laws of the state that they live in. 

i do feel bad that their children were taken away so abruptly, but they are breaking the law, and they need to realize that and cooperate with the authorities. 
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Boylanjl

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Re: DNA samples to be taken from polygamous sect kids this week
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2008, 02:44:57 PM »

I believe these people believe they are above the law, they need to be show what is right in our society.  Abuse of children should not be allowed.  By taking the DNA of the children and determining who the parents are, will only shed more light on what has been going on in that place.  I know one of the Lifetime netowrks my wife watches showed a movie about a sect like this and how a mother got her children out of a place like this because they were going to force her 14 yr old daughter to marry someone.  With this specific case, we will have to watch and see wha comes of this investigation to see what details are released and what the DA decides to d about charging people.
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Re: DNA samples to be taken from polygamous sect kids this week
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2008, 06:20:42 PM »

There is the possibility that many of these children are going to be brothers and sisters.....what do think should happen with these poor children?

I think after all of this and being placed in a new environment and in another home is going to be scary.  I hope they are all placed together somewhere - that way the will have each other in this new way of life they will be given.
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Prophet of Doom

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Re: DNA samples to be taken from polygamous sect kids this week
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2008, 06:26:13 PM »

I think that since they are all named jessop or jeffs, they are so inbred that DNA will be useless.
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Draco E. Pluribus

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Re: DNA samples to be taken from polygamous sect kids this week
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2008, 03:47:59 PM »

What are your thoughts on this whole issue?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080421/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat;_ylt=ApgRCXumFbVZxHQNd0B7Na2s0NUE


Freedom Warning!!!!


Be careful in exercising your supposed freedom to speak!  Do not speak positively about polygamy!  It is against the law unlike other non-favored religious practices between consenting adults!  Same sex lechery is approved by our religious community and referred to as homosexuality instead of same sex lechery (buggery) or properly Homos-sensuality!  Such relationships may be confused with marriage and condoned by churches.

Positive remarks about polygamy are forbidden in Michigan because of:

Quote
THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931
MCL 750.441 Teaching, soliciting and advocating polygamy; felony.
Sec. 441. Teaching, soliciting and advocating the practice of polygamy—Any person who shall solicit to a polygamous life, or teach polygamy as a correct form of family life, for the purpose of inducing men and women to enter into the practice of polygamy or advocate the doctrine and practice of polygamy, or attempt to persuade any person by private or public discourse to adopt a polygamous life, shall be guilty of a felony.

History: 1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931;¾CL 1948, 750.441.
Former law: See section 1 of Act 249 of 1899, being CL 1915, § 15501; and CL 1929, § 16845.


This was a prelude to "Under God" in our pledge and on our currency despite the gods of other practicing religious Americans.  Many who were here before any Europeans and Africans came to our shores.
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"A disposition to preserve, and an ability to improve, taken together, would be my standard of a statesman."
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Prophet of Doom

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Re: DNA samples to be taken from polygamous sect kids this week
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2008, 07:10:17 PM »

boy, thats a thread killer.  ;D
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Bedfordres

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Re: DNA samples to be taken from polygamous sect kids this week
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2008, 07:42:54 PM »

If the legal authorities had any evidence that the kids were being taken advantage of then should have removed the kids like they did.  The only info we are getting is thru the media.  But reports that the kids aren't even sure who there mothers and fathers or how old they are is pretty disturbing.  One gets the impression that the older women do the "housework" and take care of the kids until they are old enough for the men.  The younger girls are sex objects for the males and continue to have kids until they become to old for the leaders of the cult.
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Re: DNA samples to be taken from polygamous sect kids this week
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2008, 07:45:27 PM »

If the legal authorities had any evidence that the kids were being taken advantage of then should have removed the kids like they did.  The only info we are getting is thru the media.  But reports that the kids aren't even sure who there mothers and fathers or how old they are is pretty disturbing.  One gets the impression that the older women do the "housework" and take care of the kids until they are old enough for the men.  The younger girls are sex objects for the males and continue to have kids until they become to old for the leaders of the cult.



Thats exactly the impression I have gotten from this, and other cults as this one.  Its like the women are on a cycle and as they age they move into different roles. 

I just find it all so disturbing.   
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Boylanjl

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Re: DNA samples to be taken from polygamous sect kids this week
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2008, 08:43:29 PM »



Thats exactly the impression I have gotten from this, and other cults as this one.  Its like the women are on a cycle and as they age they move into different roles. 

I just find it all so disturbing.   

Also like woman are possesions too.
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Draco E. Pluribus

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Re: DNA samples to be taken from polygamous sect kids this week
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2008, 06:12:21 PM »



Thats exactly the impression I have gotten from this, and other cults as this one.  Its like the women are on a cycle and as they age they move into different roles. 

I just find it all so disturbing.   

We are all in a life cycle.  Such is called biology.  In a free country we should be free to choose any path that does not actually trespass on the rights of others if we so please.  In Bangladesh, because of poor economic conditions, I know of one family where one woman has three husbands to support her.  They each lay or sleep with her during different menstrual cycles to ensure that the inheritance of the marriage from the true father is passed on to his own children.

Polygamy in different cultures does not necessarily victimize anyone, but is a chosen life style as a means to cope with natural and social hardships.  So-called Christian dogma does not permit it as a practice even within the True Church of the Latter Day Saints.

Whatever happened to the meaning that the term consenting adults is supposed to convey?

Or does that concept only apply to the sodomy of buggery and other shitey practices?

How much do you want the almighty "STATE" invading your family and governing the social and religious activities and choices of your children?

Where should the line be drawn?

Some obviously prefer that polygamous life style.  As so-called "FREE" Americans and adults, why are they denied such freedom.  By what non-religious based law are they denied such a right to choose?

Must "Blue Laws" rule US like the fundamentalist's Islamic law rules in the Middle East?

Just what does the word "FREEDOM" mean?

Is this America or WHAT?
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"A disposition to preserve, and an ability to improve, taken together, would be my standard of a statesman."
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Re: DNA samples to be taken from polygamous sect kids this week
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2008, 06:38:09 PM »

Whatever happened to the meaning that the term consenting adults is supposed to convey?

How much do you want the almighty "STATE" invading your family and governing the social and religious activities and choices of your children?

Where should the line be drawn?

Some obviously prefer that polygamous life style.  As so-called "FREE" Americans and adults, why are they denied such freedom.  By what non-religious based law are they denied such a right to choose?




The key word is ADULT.....these children did not ask for this.   These CHILD aged girls are being forced into marriage and having babies....Thats where the line needs to be drawn!

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Chips

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Re: DNA samples to be taken from polygamous sect kids this week
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2008, 07:18:09 PM »

Gee. I hope it is not mine! :o :o
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Re: DNA samples to be taken from polygamous sect kids this week
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2008, 08:29:32 PM »

If the legal authorities had any evidence that the kids were being taken advantage of then should have removed the kids like they did.  The only info we are getting is thru the media.  But reports that the kids aren't even sure who there mothers and fathers or how old they are is pretty disturbing.  One gets the impression that the older women do the "housework" and take care of the kids until they are old enough for the men.  The younger girls are sex objects for the males and continue to have kids until they become to old for the leaders of the cult.
LATEST UPDATE TODAY   
Another example of prosectors and the state not providing evidence !!! So this doesn't ONLY happen in the Monroe Prosecutors office.  THANK GOD FOR APPEALS COURTS TO STRAIGHTEN THEM OUT.
The Third Court of Appeals in Austin ruled that the state offered "legally and factually insufficient" grounds for the "extreme" measure of removing all children from the ranch, from babies to teenagers.

The state never provided evidence that the children were in any immediate danger, the only grounds in Texas law for taking children from their parents without court approval, the appeals court said.

It also failed to show evidence that more than five of the teenage girls were being sexually abused, and never alleged any sexual or physical abuse against the other children, the court said.
Julie Balovich, an attorney with Texas RioGrande Legal Aid, representing 48 FLDS mothers, reacts to a court decision stating that Texas had no right to take children from their religious compound.  Texas had no right to seize children.
Hundreds of children are removed from a ranch run by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
In a ruling that could torpedo the case against the West Texas polygamist sect, a state appeals court Thursday said authorities had no right to seize more than 440 children in a raid on the splinter group's ranch last month.

It was unclear how many children were affected by the ruling. The state took 464 children into custody in April, but Thursday's ruling directly applied to the children of 48 sect mothers represented by the Texas Rio Grande Legal Aide, said Cynthia Martinez of the agency. About 200 parents are involved in the polygamy case.

The Third Court of Appeals in Austin ruled that the state offered "legally and factually insufficient" grounds for the "extreme" measure of removing all children from the ranch, from babies to teenagers.

The state never provided evidence that the children were in any immediate danger, the only grounds in Texas law for taking children from their parents without court approval, the appeals court said.

It also failed to show evidence that more than five of the teenage girls were being sexually abused, and never alleged any sexual or physical abuse against the other children, the court said.

It was not immediately clear whether the children scattered across foster facilities statewide might soon be reunited with parents. The ruling gave Texas District Judge Barbara Walther 10 days to vacate her custody order, and the state could appeal.

'They're very thrilled'
FLDS spokesman Rod Parker said sect members feel validated, having argued from the beginning that they were being persecuted for their beliefs.

"They're very thrilled. They're looking forward to seeing the children returned," he said.

Julie Balovich of Texas RioGrande Legal Aid said she expected attorneys for all of the parents to seek to join the ruling.

"It's a great day for Texas justice. This was the right decision," said Balovich, who represented 38 families. Balovich was joined by several smiling mothers who declined to comment at a news conference outside the courthouse.

Every child at the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado was taken into state custody more than six weeks ago, after Child Protective Services officials argued that members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints pushed underage girls into marriage and sex and groomed boys to become adult perpetrators. Only a few dozen of the roughly 440 children seized are teenage girls; half were under 5.

The appeals court said the state was wrong to consider the entire ranch as an individual household and that the state could not take all the children from a community on the notion that some parents in the community might be abusers.

"The existence of the FLDS belief system as described by the department's witnesses, by itself, does not put children of FLDS parents in physical danger," the court said in its ruling.

The court said that although five girls had become pregnant at age 15 or 16, the state gave no evidence about the circumstances of the pregnancies. It noted that minors as young as 16 can wed in Texas with parental consent, and even younger children can marry if a court approves it.

Balovich said the appeals court "has stood up for the legal rights of these families and given these mothers hope that their families will be brought back together."

Even before Thursday's ruling, the state's allegations of teenage girls being pushed into sex appeared to be deflating.

Of the 31 sect members CPS once said were underage mothers, 15 have been reclassified as adults — one was 27 years old — and an attorney for a 14-year-old girl said in court that she had no children and was not pregnant, as officials previously asserted.

The custody case has been chaotic from the beginning.

CPS has struggled with even the identities of the children for weeks and scattered them across foster facilities all over the sprawling state, with some siblings separated by as much as 600 miles.

The sect children were removed en masse during a raid that began April 3 after someone called a domestic abuse hot line claiming to be a pregnant abused teenage wife. The girl has not been found and authorities are investigating whether the calls were a hoax.

Members contend they are being persecuted by state officials for their religious beliefs.


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