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[Matt (formerly ML)]

This is ridiculous.

If you don't vote, don't complain.

You can roll your eyes all you like. It won't change the fact that you're dead wrong.

Try addressing the facts and concepts.

When you vote, you voluntarily submit your life to the whims of others. You don't get to complain because you voluntarily participated.

It's like gambling. If you throw those dice, you don't get to complain about the outcome.

There is nothing magical, mystical, or obligatory about voting in government polls.

The only people who get to complain are those who were robbed even though they didn't throw any dice.

[Matt (formerly ML)]

Sir,  I NEVER told you or implied telling you to either 'love it or leave it.'

You may not have intended to imply that, but that's precisely what you did.

Your "position" is no different than a mobster demanding "protection" money from shopkeeps:  love it or leave it.

Tell me: how do I opt out of your protection racket?

[Griff]

You may not have intended to imply that, but that's precisely what you did.

Your "position" is no different than a mobster demanding "protection" money from shopkeeps:  love it or leave it.

Tell me: how do I opt out of your protection racket?

Good luck with your future posts.

[MM1]

(In response to Griff:)

You may not have intended to imply that, but that's precisely what you did.

Your "position" is no different than a mobster demanding "protection" money from shopkeeps:  love it or leave it.

Tell me: how do I opt out of your protection racket?

How did this simple question boil down to one of the nicest people on this forum being equated to the "MOB" ? ? ? 

[marilyn.monroe]

ML
I really don't get the whole non-vote thing. How do you propose we run the country?
No government?
I respect a person's right to freedom, but that freedom we enjoy comes from our unity.
I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with the majority if they held your views or voted your way. I do think we are way overgoverned on an individual basis, but that isn't going to change by decrying voting, unless you intend on taking up arms against the government & your fellow Americans. I respect people who are trying to clean up government the Constitutional way.
I'd take a look around at the world and Thank God I lived in America if I were you.
I'm not giving in and letting the elite rule. I still believe everyone has a right to their own say in how this country is run (it's called a vote...and believe or not they do matter). I don't necessarily agree with the majority rule at all times, but I think it's better than everyone running amuck doing as they damn well please. Anarchy & chaos deprive people of freedom more so than rule by majority...and don't forget those rules are defined by the Constitution and judged by the Supreme Court. If you don't even believe this country has a right to exist at all maybe you should find somewhere else to call home.
If this goes to the whole state secession thing or whether or not state's are even legally part of this country...I'd say no state could stand on it's own w/out allying to another country...who will that country(s) be? If any state did vote for independence, I'd say let em go...cut em off...give them what they want. I firmly believe in America...love her or leave her...I don't want you here if you don't-and don't ask us for a damn thing. Pity for those in the state who do love America and want to be a part of her, but then I guess you don't care about anyone but yourself. I guess they have to love Montana or leave her.
Don't get me wrong...I believe in State and Local government and think the Feds should let them do their jobs & get off their power trip, but I also believe in America and united we stand, divided we fall.

I guess that rambling on leads me back to I just don't get the whole voting is oppression theory.

[Matt (formerly ML)]

Tell me: how do I opt out of your protection racket?

Good luck with your future posts.

Yet another person who won't answer a straight question.

That's okay. Go ahead and ignore the question. It won't change the fact that concepts matter.

[SMASH]

ML
I really don't get the whole non-vote thing. How do you propose we run the country?
No government?
I respect a person's right to freedom, but that freedom we enjoy comes from our unity.
I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with the majority if they held your views or voted your way. I do think we are way overgoverned on an individual basis, but that isn't going to change by decrying voting, unless you intend on taking up arms against the government & your fellow Americans. I respect people who are trying to clean up government the Constitutional way.
I'd take a look around at the world and Thank God I lived in America if I were you.
I'm not giving in and letting the elite rule. I still believe everyone has a right to their own say in how this country is run (it's called a vote...and believe or not they do matter). I don't necessarily agree with the majority rule at all times, but I think it's better than everyone running amuck doing as they damn well please. Anarchy & chaos deprive people of freedom more so than rule by majority...and don't forget those rules are defined by the Constitution and judged by the Supreme Court. If you don't even believe this country has a right to exist at all maybe you should find somewhere else to call home.
If this goes to the whole state secession thing or whether or not state's are even legally part of this country...I'd say no state could stand on it's own w/out allying to another country...who will that country(s) be? If any state did vote for independence, I'd say let em go...cut em off...give them what they want. I firmly believe in America...love her or leave her...I don't want you here if you don't-and don't ask us for a damn thing. Pity for those in the state who do love America and want to be a part of her, but then I guess you don't care about anyone but yourself. I guess they have to love Montana or leave her.
Don't get me wrong...I believe in State and Local government and think the Feds should let them do their jobs & get off their power trip, but I also believe in America and united we stand, divided we fall.

I guess that rambling on leads me back to I just don't get the whole voting is oppression theory.

Knock, knock. Hello!!

Re-read the Constitution.

You're not letting the elite rule? How's that?

You don't believe in majority rule all the time? So you are a part time believer in Democracy?
I am in a non-stop battle against full time Democracy!! All Democracies fail, every time.

Anarchy does not = chaos. Neither does it reduce freedom. It also has a basis in free association.

Defined by the Constitution? Really? Check again.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=War_Powers_Act

Judged by the Supreme Court? Really? Check again.
The Report states, "Because Congress and the public are unaware of the extent of emergency powers, there has never been any notable congressional or public objection made to this state of affairs. Nor have the courts imposed significant limitations ... the temporary states of emergency declared in 1938, 1939, 1941, 1950, 1970, and 1971 would become what are now regarded collectively as virtually permanent states of emergency (the 1939 and 1941 emergencies were terminated in 1952). Forty years can, in no way, be defined as a temporary emergency."[8]

Secondly, it adds, "the various administrations who drafted these laws for a variety of reasons were understandably not concerned about providing for congressional review, oversight, or termination of these delegated powers which gave the President enormous powers and flexibility to use those powers."

No State could stand on it's own?
I bet Alaska and Hawaii and Texas could.

[marilyn.monroe]

wtf should I join in on the down with America chorus?
No, I am not "letting" the elite rule.
No, I don't always agree with the majority's opinion, but I respect this country's rule of law.
I thought this country was a Republic!
We disagree on what conditions anarchy would cause.
You may have a point w/ a permanent "state of emergency", I have read some of your other postings on that issue. We are in a state of emergency right now if you ask me.
Alaska might as well learn to speak Russian, Hawaii can embrace Japan, and Texas already speaks Spanish quite well.
"United we stand, divided we fall."
Take a look at the rest of the world and know when you have it good. We can change things for the better without tearing this country apart or down.
Ron Paul isn't asking people to take up arms and secede from the Union, he is asking people to VOTE for the revolution.

[SMASH]

wtf should I join in on the down with America chorus?
No, I am not "letting" the elite rule.
No, I don't always agree with the majority's opinion, but I respect this country's rule of law.
I thought this country was a Republic!
We disagree on what conditions anarchy would cause.
You may have a point w/ a permanent "state of emergency", I have read some of your other postings on that issue. We are in a state of emergency right now if you ask me.
Alaska might as well learn to speak Russian, Hawaii can embrace Japan, and Texas already speaks Spanish quite well.
"United we stand, divided we fall."
Take a look at the rest of the world and know when you have it good. We can change things for the better without tearing this country apart or down.
Ron Paul isn't asking people to take up arms and secede from the Union, he is asking people to VOTE for the revolution.

Rule "of" law?
That's part of the problem. It should be rule BY law not OF law. Rule by law dictates judgement by what the law says not what the judge says the law is.
People scream for justice in this nation. It's hard to get when you have activist judges and an ignorant jury pool! Just another topic NOT taught in our government indoctrination centers, other wise known as public schools.

You're absolutely right this country was a Republic at one time.
Remember Franklin's warning?
When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
Or, this one.
Outside Independence Hall when the Constitutional Convention of 1787 ended, Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, "Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, "A republic, if you can keep it."
Or, my favorite.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Sound like the Patriot Act, and HR1955???

Until we unite around the Constitution and the Bill of Rights again and not some bozo the Parties pick for us, we will remain a divided people. President Washington, for goodness sake, warned in his farewell address to Congress the dangers of political parties and factions. His address used to be read into the record of every session of Congress until around 1946 or 47.
Maybe they should start that tradition again?

[lordfly]

ML's beef is that he's an anarchist. ANY form of government would chafe his pants.

He wants to rule his house with the force of... I dunno, primal screaming and gunshots, I guess, and he wants his neighbors to do the same on their own property, away from him.

[Chips]

I hear by give up my right to vote in the November 2008 Presidential election.

There are no viable candidates.

[SMASH]

I hear by give up my right to vote in the November 2008 Presidential election.

There are no viable candidates.

Yes there is, one.

[Matt (formerly ML)]

ML's beef is that he's an anarchist. ANY form of government would chafe his pants.

He wants to rule his house with the force of... I dunno, primal screaming and gunshots, I guess, and he wants his neighbors to do the same on their own property, away from him.

You don't pay attention very well, political aspirant. I've told you this before: Don't presume to speak for me.

My "beef" is with arbitrary enforcement of mere personal preferences. You'd do well to do some research on what, precisely, anarchy is. Here's a hint: it is not chaos or barbarism.

[Matt (formerly ML)]

How did this simple question boil down to one of the nicest people on this forum being equated to the "MOB" ? ? ? 

Consider this:

If you were walking past your neighbor's house and came upon a crowd deliberating whether to enter the premises and take things that belonged to your neighbor, and they invited you to vote on the matter, could those people be considered "nice"?

You know they couldn't. There is nothing nice about stealing.

Scaling up the number of people deliberating and wrongly entering homes to hundreds of millions of people doesn't change the fact that they're thieves.

There is no such thing as a moral right to take a vote on whether to violate others' rights.

[Matt (formerly ML)]

I respect a person's right to freedom, but that freedom we enjoy comes from our unity.

That depends on what you mean by "unity". This smacks of 1984.

War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.

May as well add: Unity is Freedom.

I respect people who are trying to clean up government the Constitutional way.

Thoreau nailed this 159 years ago:

As for adopting the ways which the State has provided for remedying the evil, I know not of such ways. They take too much time, and a man's life will be gone. I have other affairs to attend to. I came into this world, not chiefly to make this a good place to live in, but to live in it, be it good or bad.

The rest is here: http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil2.html

If you haven't read Thoreau's Civil Disobedience, you have sorely neglected your personal growth.

I'd take a look around at the world and Thank God I lived in America if I were you.

And here you reveal yourself to be a US zealot. Your implications are insulting and your premises are broken.