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[Greg Chamberlain]

if you people really want to complain about this, why not go down to the fire station and tell those men they dont deserve the amount of money they are earning.  i dont think anyone has the balls to do that.

Deserves has nothing to do with it.

[SidecarFlip]

wow....after 9-11 people were complaining that firefighters should get paid more for risking their lives to save other people.  now you are complaining that they are getting too much of a pension for all that hard work? we should be proud that our city pays these firefighters a great salary and a great pension.  if you think about it, that means that we probably have the best firefighters around.  they work hard for their money and do their jobs right.  if you people really want to complain about this, why not go down to the fire station and tell those men they dont deserve the amount of money they are earning.  i dont think anyone has the balls to do that.

You are obviously a selective reader.  I made reference to a letter to the editor in yesterday's MEN.  My take is simply this.  We are in recessionary times.  Everyone is.  That's a fact.  You know it, I know it.  We see the auto workers taking cuts, wages are stagnant, the GNP is stagnant and every local government wants to keep on increasing spending.  I can easily relate to the letter writers position.  When I read about a firefighter getting a 65K pension or a 70K pension and then the rebuttal to the letter says it's true, I start wondering who is in touch with reality.

In as much as I don't live in the city and have volunteer fire protection services, I don't really give a hoot about what they make or don't make.  What I'm saying is that the population is shrinking and so is the tax base, especially here in this county.  As it shrinks, the availability of funds shrink.  Obviously, local gummit is out of tune with that decrease in funding.

The problem runs much, much deeper than the fire departmenmt or even Monroe County, but it's a problem that needs addressed and addressed soon or guess what......your services, you know, the ones you take for granted, are going to go away, simply because the funding for those services don't exist anymore.

On the job scenario, any applicant to the fire department, police department, state police or sheriff's department that is accepted, knows going in full well what the risks are and accepts those risks as part of the job.  Remember, it's a job, just like the garbageman.  No different.  Every job has inherent risks and those riske must be weighed by the person who is entertaining that profession.  Just because firefighters and law enforcement officers are in the public eye more than say, a garbageman, it don't mean the garbageman's job isn't risky either.

You do your job and you are compensated for it.  What the letter was about is basically what is equitable compensation and what's not.

To quote a line that I heard from one of my students a few days ago.....'gimme is what got you here'.  We seem to live in a 'Gimme' society.  Gimme this and gimme that.  Gimme more money, benefits, pension, personal gratification, more time off, better working conditions.... the list goes on and on.  Problem is, Gimme is what got us here.  It's past time to change that attitude.  Maybe it's too late.

[Bedfordres]

Generally speaking most government workers today are overpaid and have generous benefits.  It's time to reconsider what their value is.  Policeman and fireman are a different story.  They all deserve what they get.  I wouldn't want either job for twice what they make.

[Master MS]

My personal feeling is simply,yes, they are saving lives and doing a community service but, didn't they apply for the job?  Didn't they want the job?  After all, it's just a job.

True, but it is a hazardous job and the hazards faced by the people who choose the profession are part of the reason for them to be paid more.

I mean, I could use your argument to claim that every person in America, regardless of expertise, education level, work ethic, etc., should be paid an identical wage.  Perhaps you believe that is the way things should be.  Personally, I think people should be rewarded for hard work and risk taking.

If they are entitled to pensions of that magnitude, why should they not be required to contribute to a qualified pension plan like 99% of other employees are required to do.  Bottom line is that they are employees.

True, but they also do not receive Social Security benefits.  That's one thing you're entitled to that they are not.

I still want to be a firefighter in Monroe.  Where do I apply?  I promise (Scouts Honor) that I'll do a good job, never be late for work, never *****, keep my turnout suit neat and folded, make my bed neatly and do all the things required to be a model fireman (like have a job on the side too).  When it comes time to retire, I'll be set and have a fantastic pension as well.  I'll move out of this stink'in state to some state where it don't snow and live happily ever after...as the Taxpayers of the City of Monroe pay my retirement (with appropriate cost of living increases).

Application Please?

Hey, as you mentioned earlier, the current firefighters chose to pursue the career.  Nothing is holding you back from pursuing it.  And if Monroe's fire department isn't hiring right now (which is possible), I imagine there are localities all over this country that are looking for someone who's willnig to do the job.  Feel free.  Nobody is preventing you from doing it, right?

[cc]

There are the jobs that YES I agree the pensions they make are crazy - but the employers determine that I have no controll over it - so who am I to be upset about it?

HOWEVER.....there are some that I say....woohooo for them.  Firefighters, Rescue Workers, Police -  are in the group of ones I say who are we to complain?    The amount of hours these workers work, and the dangerous situations they face are worthy.  Alright....a firefighter may not have a fire everyday - is that a bad thing?  NO!  But I wold rather have them sitting there waiting and ready to go when we do need them as to have a very small department that has depend on volunteers to be able to break away to come help.  NO I am NOT bashing volunteers...they are important too - but they go when they can......and if I need a fire department I LOVE knowing there is a group of fighters ready to go.   Same goes for rescue workers of all kinds and police......when I NEED them - you bet your bottom dollar I want a group ready to handle my call.

I have had to call .... fire department, police and rescue workers at a few times in life so far and I am PROUD to say that each time a fast response was given by all departments....and I am very grateful.  

I would not want to do a firefighters job.....walking through a building in all that heavy garb with blazing flames around me, looking for people and pets.......not for me....but thank you to those who do it.

[SidecarFlip]

True, but it is a hazardous job and the hazards faced by the people who choose the profession are part of the reason for them to be paid more.

I mean, I could use your argument to claim that every person in America, regardless of expertise, education level, work ethic, etc., should be paid an identical wage.  Perhaps you believe that is the way things should be.  Personally, I think people should be rewarded for hard work and risk taking.

True, but they also do not receive Social Security benefits.  That's one thing you're entitled to that they are not.

Hey, as you mentioned earlier, the current firefighters chose to pursue the career.  Nothing is holding you back from pursuing it.  And if Monroe's fire department isn't hiring right now (which is possible), I imagine there are localities all over this country that are looking for someone who's willnig to do the job.  Feel free.  Nobody is preventing you from doing it, right?

I don't receive Social Security benefits either.  I work for the State of Ohio.  Neither does my wife (receive SS benefits).

I have a dangerous enough job.  I teach young adults how to become productive members of society.  Besides, I'm a bit too old to become a firefighter.

Actually, I prefer not to participate in Social Security.  It's one less thing I have to worry about going broke.

[SidecarFlip]

Unbelievable,
As a PROUD member of the MFD, the whole arguement against us is laughable.  Not once have I heard a word how we pay no social security and will receive NO social security when we retire.  We all contrubute to our pensions every week right out of our check. 

Complaining about how much we make in retirement?  Blame your city officials for not replacing retiring firefighters.  By them letting not replacing us, overtime goes through the roof to fill minimal staffing.  Thus, all the guys retiring are making alot more money due to overtime.  If you want to blame the overtime crisis blame City Hall.   There are currently 4 openings with 4 on the way this month.  Is city hall prepared??  NO  they are not replacing those positions either so overtime will soar even higher.

Its easy to blame the firefighters.  No one has the guts to blame council and the mayor.  The mayor has made it well known he hates our pension as well.  You are right, we bust our butts and ask only for fair compensation.  At least we won't be sucking off the depleting social security system.

Also, I love the comment about a garbagemans job being more dangerous!  You are right, running into burning buildings, HAZMAT spills, confined space rescues, water rescues, and facing all diseases as a paramedic is just the same as throwing trash in a truck.

Well, lets see.  As a firefighter (at least in Ohio) you don't need a CDL or any special training to drive a fire appratus with air brakes, a severe tailswing and a GVW that mandates a Class A CDL plus you don't receive any training on driving that appratus in a safe manner.  So, if you are barrelling down the road to a call and the garbageman just happens to be loading his truck and you hit him, well, at that point a garbagemans job has become quite dangerous to his life and limb.

I can't speak for Michigan's mandates or regulations but I can find out if I need to.

Any job has it's dangers.  You accept and try to minimize those dangers as part of your vocation.  There has been way too much glamorization of firefighters since 911.  It's just a job.  You choose it.

When you are on duty, you eat well, sleep well and have all the conveiences of home without your spouse of course and for some, absent spouses are probably a good thing.

Again, let me reinterate.  I don't live in Monroe or know what your mayor or council feel or presume to feel about your pension plan or compensation.  All I kinow is what I read in the MEN last night and the rebuttal.  People (like me) form opinions on what they see or read.  A good example of that is this Presidental election but that's for another time.

We all want equitable compensation for our services.  That is human nature.  The question is; When does equitable become frivilous.

You, as an employee of a tier of government, become a puppet of sorts.  The people who hold your strings will ultimately decide if, indeed your compensation package is equitable or not.

[Master MS]

I have a dangerous enough job.  I teach young adults how to become productive members of society.  Besides, I'm a bit too old to become a firefighter.

And the danger inherent in your job (I imagine it's nowhere near the danger involved with running INTO flaming buildings) is part of your compensation package.

You can't blame firefighters for what they've negotiated and what the Monroe city council apparently agreed to.  If you don't think it's appropriate, you have few avenues for changing it as you're not even a Monroe resident by your own admission.  However, if you live in Monroe, you could contact city councilpeople to try to convince them to hold to a tougher line during the next round of negotiations with the city fire department.  Or even run for council where you'd be able to have even more input.

What I see from people who are complaining is a lot of "But they shouldn't get more than ME even though I haven't chosen to do what they do."  Despite the fact that you had the freedom to pursue the SAME career years ago.  You didn't.  Get over it.

[lordfly]

Hell, why not give them $25 million a year? Or ****, $1 billion. I mean, after all, they spent 25 years saving your asses from house fires and risking their lives right?  * * * *

I don't really know if $70k is an appropriate pension. My gut feeling seems to say it is. But your argument does not really address the issue with anything resembling reason.

And what would the argument be that we should cut back their pensions? It costs too much?

Sometimes if you want quality you have to pay for it. If you're paying firefighters substandard wages, you're going to get substandard people (the good ones will go elsewhere). The last thing I'd want is a bunch of mediocre people in charge of saving lives in the county.

Police, teachers, and firefighters should be among the highest paid people on the planet.

[Boylanjl]

And what would the argument be that we should cut back their pensions? It costs too much?

Sometimes if you want quality you have to pay for it. If you're paying firefighters substandard wages, you're going to get substandard people (the good ones will go elsewhere). The last thing I'd want is a bunch of mediocre people in charge of saving lives in the county.

Police, teachers, and firefighters should be among the highest paid people on the planet.

Well said Fly, well said.

[Boylanjl]

Could someone post the content of the 2 letters to the editor they are being referenced in this post, I am unabe to get the MEN.

[Chips]

Only way to go in this economy.....
PRIVATIZATION!

[forever39]

I agree that our policemen & firefighters should be paid a very good wage - however, I also believe that $65,000 & $70,000 plus for retirement pay is excessive.

[lulu]

Lordfly hit it on the head - substandard wages = substandard service.

Your life may depend on these very firefighters some day.

I prefer dedicated happy people saving me or mine anyday!

[Boylanjl]

I agree that our policemen & firefighters should be paid a very good wage - however, I also believe that $65,000 & $70,000 plus for retirement pay is excessive.

This pension amount, is it for a basic firefighter or a Lt, Capt, or Chief?