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GreyCrow

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Re: How can their be "Reverse Discrimination"
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2007, 01:08:07 PM »

EVERY person in America is born with the same shot to advance and succeed at birth! Some even have more guidelines granting them that shot than others. So if people cannot act like civilized citizens here, they should be shipped elsewhere or delt with accordingly. The jails fail them, the system fails them... how about they fail them? A man should be responsible for his own path! I grew up in the same neighborhood, got involved in much of the same actvities, but I grew up and moved on... THERE IS NO EXCUSE!

Maybe we live in different  countries. I too would like to think we all have an equal opportunity; however, this isn't true.

Frankly, there were elements of your post that scared me.

I have a belief that it is true! I'm a truck driver who deals with professional black, asian, hispanic and white people all day who have achieved! No you may not become the next Donald Trump, Puff Daddy or Shaqile O'Neal but how many of us do? The key is to achieve and be happy with what you have achieved!

What elements of my post scared you? If you don't mind me asking. I have no problem with having a civil convo and explaining the elements.

Will Sweat

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Re: How can their be "Reverse Discrimination"
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2007, 01:19:34 PM »

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Some of the Klans beliefs are actually fine by me. You cannot tell me that every belief they have is a hate belief. You cannot tell me that every Klan member has committed murder, etc.

Maybe not but this is bit like saying, John Wayne Gacy wasn't all bad, he was a good painter.  

Quote
I grew up and moved on... THERE IS NO EXCUSE!


Maybe not an excuse but, there are mitigating circumstances in everyone's life.  

Quote
I do desire for my children to help keep our bloodline going just as I have by having children with a woman of like roots!


As you wrote, "desire", would it be wrong to ask if you will accept your son(s) wife if he chooses someone not of his ethnic heritage?  Will you accept her and or there children?  

Your list of dislikes is something I find agreement with and while the idea of vigilante justice is appealing I don't see it as upholding the principals of the Constitution or Bill of Rights.  
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GreyCrow

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Re: How can their be "Reverse Discrimination"
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2007, 01:37:50 PM »

I grew up in the “neighborhood”…
-surrounded by children being raised by single parents. I was raised by my mother.
-witnessed death for the first time, by my best friend being killed next to me when I was 10, he was only 12.
-held my first gun when I was 10.
-had sex, drank and experimented with weed and pills before I was a teen.
-was in jail for the first time when I was 11 (stealing cars already).
-joined the local gang at 10.
-was being expelled from school by the time I was 13.
-was breaking into trains and cars and selling the stuff at school by the time I 13.
-spent quite a bit of my teen years in jail.
-really did not care if I lived or died by the time I was 14.
-got kicked out of school at 16 for pulling a gun on a teacher that I had pinned in between the desk and the chalk board.
-became a teen parent.
-was in jail during the birth of my first child.
-was on my own at 17.
-was still in and out of jail, drinking a lot and using drugs (weed and pills) until I was about 24.
FINALLY at 25, went back to school and got my diploma, stopped hanging out in the street and being involved in street things, etc.

Do I have excuses? Can I get a corporate job just because of this? Can I become rich because of this? Can I even get a free yard of land or a couple thousand dollars because of this? Why not? I was surrounded in a neighborhood where I was forced to deal with death too young, forced to be the man of the house too young, had drugs and guns pushed on me, got involved in crime, joined the gang, etc. etc.

This is the easy part.

Then in 2005 after working a good job for 10 years I’m forced to start all over due to layoffs, cutbacks, etc. I couldn’t even get health insurance through the state; even though I paid taxes for the past 10 years! We lost two cars, because we had to sell them. Almost lost our house that we worked years to get. The state gave us nothing because they said that with my kids mother working and my book sales we made too much. But it wasn’t enough to cover our bills. I remind you I’m a working man. I couldn’t get anything, while some drug dealer whose girlfriend collects state aid, or some person who has never worked a day in they’re life collects state aid. Or even worse, some person who is an drug addict or addicted to drink collects a check. Did any of my past “excuses” help me? Should they? NO, but I do believe that my working for a living should account for something and be able to be crutch in my time of need. After all, I’ one of the ones who pays the way for the career welfare addict, career drug addict and career drink addict.
Think about it.

I believe that my past, and circumstances should not have anything to do with where I go or what I do. I’m my own man and responsible for my own actions… I’ll pave and make my own path! NO EXCUSES!
« Last Edit: September 01, 2007, 01:53:12 PM by GreyCrow »
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GreyCrow

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Re: How can their be "Reverse Discrimination"
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2007, 01:49:13 PM »

Quote
Some of the Klans beliefs are actually fine by me. You cannot tell me that every belief they have is a hate belief. You cannot tell me that every Klan member has committed murder, etc.

Maybe not but this is bit like saying, John Wayne Gacy wasn't all bad, he was a good painter.  

Quote
I grew up and moved on... THERE IS NO EXCUSE!


Maybe not an excuse but, there are mitigating circumstances in everyone's life.  

Quote
I do desire for my children to help keep our bloodline going just as I have by having children with a woman of like roots!


As you wrote, "desire", would it be wrong to ask if you will accept your son(s) wife if he chooses someone not of his ethnic heritage?  Will you accept her and or there children?  

Your list of dislikes is something I find agreement with and while the idea of vigilante justice is appealing I don't see it as upholding the principals of the Constitution or Bill of Rights.  


#1
Gacy did do a lot of good works for his community. Did he deserve his punnishment for his killings? Yes. But even in the baddest of situations there is some good. He contributed monies to various charties and even was a respected citizen on the surface.

#2
Why not have excuses to achieve instead of excuses to fail? There was a time when a man at the young age of 15 was responsible to build a home, farm crops, protect and provide for a family. Our men are becoming way too soft due to excuses! The manicured man has almost replaced the mans man. 25 years from now the excuse will be an MTV or Video Game plea.

#3
I might accept them, I may not. I honestly could not tell you. I have yet to experience that situation and from the looks of it, I most likely will not have to.

#4
It does not uphold the Bill Of Rights, but it does uphold community and human rights as far as I'm concerned. There was a time when villages of my people would either kill or ban a member of the village for certain crimes. Across the globe America has the worst crime rate, why is that? How about broadcasting executions, or letting victims families pick and perhaps even deliver the fate? No instead, we create more excuses, idolize the predators and create more laws to protect them. What if it were your child? Your mother? Your gandmother? Even your pet, home or car?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2007, 01:54:11 PM by GreyCrow »
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Re: How can their be "Reverse Discrimination"
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2007, 02:19:23 PM »

Some of the Klans beliefs are actually fine by me. You cannot tell me that every belief they have is a hate belief. You cannot tell me that every Klan member has committed murder, etc.
Their beliefs are always tied to a hatred of others to preserve themselves. I have never read a doctrine by a Klan member who did not include hate at some point.

It is when a group of people go around lynching another group of people that it is a problem. Murder is a problem. Retalliation because the courts failed aka backyard justice is fine by me. If someone messed with my Mother, Grandmother, Mother of my children or Children the courts would not even get a chance with them reguardless of color, sexual lifestyle, religious beliefs, etc.
Obviously this is something frighten for the simple fact that you believe you are more entitled to justice than another. I'm not sure what kind of person would act like this - what if you took the life of someone innocent without knowing it? Then they'd be entitled to retaliate as well? I don't trust the average citizen's fact checking any more than I trust a 13 year olds. And they are probably more just than many adults I know.

Me, myself, I'm PROUD of my bloodline, history and cultures. Why would I want to take that away from another person to be the same? I DO have certain guidelines around my home...
-I do desire for my children to help keep our bloodline going just as I have by having children with a woman of like roots!
Like Will, I think this is particularly shocking, especially since you followed it up with something to the degree of "and from the looks of it this won't be a problem". I would venture to say that if all of our ancestors felt this way and truly acted upon it, there would be a lot less human being in this world. What is so precious about your particular blood line that would be lost if it was mixed with anything else? Would a child of a mixed bloodline be any less entitled to your particular heritage?
-I do desire to one day see grandchildren, or even great grandchildren who remind me of my grand parents.
-I do desire to have my children hang out in and befriend children from this suburb that I worked my *** off to move them to; I don't want them hanging out in or even around a ghetto. I grew up in that and worked hard to make sure they did not!
-I teach my kids to know, practice and be proud of their culture!
Any more questions? 

Truth is that we are all from the human race, but we do have different genetics and traits. At work, in life, etc. I try my best to treat and accept my fellow man if I can, but if it walks and talks like a duck... its usually a duck so I avoid it due to my own taste and past experiences.
The street gangster type does nothing for me; I'd smack them and they would'nt do anything unless there was 50 of them or they had a gun.
The drug dealer does nothing for me... I despise them!
The person that even needs 2 to 1 odds or guns to fight despises me!
The man who does not father or provide for his children despises me!
The rapist dispises me!
The thug who preys on elders or children despises me!

If every neighborhood in America had a organization that worked under a flag of street justice most of the BS that our women, children and elders are forced to deal with would be no more. Now a days the criminal has more rights and laws protecting them than the victim; is this fair?

EVERY person in America is born with the same shot to advance and succeed at birth! Some even have more guidelines granting them that shot than others. So if people cannot act like civilized citizens here, they should be shipped elsewhere or delt with accordingly. The jails fail them, the system fails them... how about they fail them? A man should be responsible for his own path! I grew up in the same neighborhood, got involved in much of the same actvities, but I grew up and moved on... THERE IS NO EXCUSE!

And finally, the most frightening part to me is the fact that this was about having a white association, yet you never outright mentioned it. This leads me to believe you make stereotypical assumptions that drug dealers are black or hispanic, ghettos are black, etc., or at least were implying them. Maybe it's what you didn't say that frightens me more than what you did.
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GreyCrow

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Re: How can their be "Reverse Discrimination"
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2007, 02:46:55 PM »

Some of the Klans beliefs are actually fine by me. You cannot tell me that every belief they have is a hate belief. You cannot tell me that every Klan member has committed murder, etc.
Their beliefs are always tied to a hatred of others to preserve themselves. I have never read a doctrine by a Klan member who did not include hate at some point.

It is when a group of people go around lynching another group of people that it is a problem. Murder is a problem. Retalliation because the courts failed aka backyard justice is fine by me. If someone messed with my Mother, Grandmother, Mother of my children or Children the courts would not even get a chance with them reguardless of color, sexual lifestyle, religious beliefs, etc.
Obviously this is something frighten for the simple fact that you believe you are more entitled to justice than another. I'm not sure what kind of person would act like this - what if you took the life of someone innocent without knowing it? Then they'd be entitled to retaliate as well? I don't trust the average citizen's fact checking any more than I trust a 13 year olds. And they are probably more just than many adults I know.

Me, myself, I'm PROUD of my bloodline, history and cultures. Why would I want to take that away from another person to be the same? I DO have certain guidelines around my home...
-I do desire for my children to help keep our bloodline going just as I have by having children with a woman of like roots!
Like Will, I think this is particularly shocking, especially since you followed it up with something to the degree of "and from the looks of it this won't be a problem". I would venture to say that if all of our ancestors felt this way and truly acted upon it, there would be a lot less human being in this world. What is so precious about your particular blood line that would be lost if it was mixed with anything else? Would a child of a mixed bloodline be any less entitled to your particular heritage?
-I do desire to one day see grandchildren, or even great grandchildren who remind me of my grand parents.
-I do desire to have my children hang out in and befriend children from this suburb that I worked my *** off to move them to; I don't want them hanging out in or even around a ghetto. I grew up in that and worked hard to make sure they did not!
-I teach my kids to know, practice and be proud of their culture!
Any more questions? 

Truth is that we are all from the human race, but we do have different genetics and traits. At work, in life, etc. I try my best to treat and accept my fellow man if I can, but if it walks and talks like a duck... its usually a duck so I avoid it due to my own taste and past experiences.
The street gangster type does nothing for me; I'd smack them and they would'nt do anything unless there was 50 of them or they had a gun.
The drug dealer does nothing for me... I despise them!
The person that even needs 2 to 1 odds or guns to fight despises me!
The man who does not father or provide for his children despises me!
The rapist dispises me!
The thug who preys on elders or children despises me!

If every neighborhood in America had a organization that worked under a flag of street justice most of the BS that our women, children and elders are forced to deal with would be no more. Now a days the criminal has more rights and laws protecting them than the victim; is this fair?

EVERY person in America is born with the same shot to advance and succeed at birth! Some even have more guidelines granting them that shot than others. So if people cannot act like civilized citizens here, they should be shipped elsewhere or delt with accordingly. The jails fail them, the system fails them... how about they fail them? A man should be responsible for his own path! I grew up in the same neighborhood, got involved in much of the same actvities, but I grew up and moved on... THERE IS NO EXCUSE!

And finally, the most frightening part to me is the fact that this was about having a white association, yet you never outright mentioned it. This leads me to believe you make stereotypical assumptions that drug dealers are black or hispanic, ghettos are black, etc., or at least were implying them. Maybe it's what you didn't say that frightens me more than what you did.

#1
Hatred of others to preserve themselves; I agree this is wrong. But to desire to preserve ones self is not. I see nothing wrong with them wanting to preserve and advance themselves. In my eyes, every race should strive for this! Preserve their teachings, customs, religions, traditions, etc. so that they may be passed on to the next generation (my people have done this!). They should also wish to advance they're people as we should ALL strive for achievement and advancement! I've never read a Klan doctrine, period... so I cannot answer that. But in every negative there is also positive; in every dark there is light.

#2
I don't believe that I'm more entitled to justice than another... I'm stating what I know; I know that I'm willing to go to the limits and shatter all boundries to obtain mine reguardless of man made law! I would research before I struck so that I did not take my revenge out on an innocent person. I'm not perfect, so if I made a mistake, then yes they would be entitled to the same. Difference is, I'm willing to accept ALL concenquences on any level to protect and uphold the honor of those dear to me!

#3
I never mentioned it because I was not applying it! Sterotypical assumptions? No... been there, seen that, etc. The drugs (aside from crack in its final form and designer drugs) are actually grown over seas and across borders. Most designer drugs are created by white people. Most medication type drugs are provided by crooked pharmacy and doctors who are mostly white. Most coke is cooked up to rock form by urban people, which is mostly black and hispanic. On shore main suppliers are usually white. The suppliers then sell to the pushers who are usually materiallistic or needy urban people who come in the black, hispanic, asian and white backgrounds. Once in a while crooked teachers, crooked cops, etc. are also found to be in this loop.
Ghettos are mostly black and hispanic... I grew up there remember. It is NOT the people of the ghetto that I want my children to stay away from, it is that environment and the activities of such that I want them to stay away from. If I would've wanted them in it, I would've stayed living there! You would not want you children to be involved either. Atleast 5 out of 10 that I grew up with and hung with are dead or in jail, 2 out of the remaining 5 are junkies, 1 out of the remaining 3 is a snitch now and its only a matter of time before they are dead, 1 out of the remaining 2 is working a low scale job trying to survive and contemplating returning to "the life"  all the time, and that last 1 out of 10 actually made it out. These are facts that I do not want my children associated with!

Will Sweat

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Re: How can their be "Reverse Discrimination"
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2007, 02:57:11 PM »

Quote
He contributed monies to various charties and even was a respect citizen on the surface.

Maybe so but I don't think that this mitigates who he was.  Imagine the argument ala Marge Schotz stating that, "Hitler wasn't all bad, he made the trains run on time".  OK.  But, at what cost to the rest of society.  

Quote
The manicured man has almost replaced the mans man.


I think I understand this and will offer this as a substitute.  The manicured man is replacing the mans-man because our economic system is beginning to value intellect more than ever.  We can debate if this has value but it does not change that this is the case.  

Quote
I might accept them, I may not. I honestly could not tell you. I have yet to experience that situation and from the looks of it, I most likely will not have to.


Thank you for being honest.  When you say, "from the looks of it, I most likely will not have to" have you considered how your world view regarding what is acceptable, emotionally, has created an isolated world for your children.  Think about it this way, if your children do not engage with others because they know you would be displeased is that a positive for the rest of the community or for there long term survival?  

Quote
There was a time when villages of my people would either kill or ban a member of the village for certain crimes. Across the globe America has the worst crime rate, why is that? How about broadcasting executions, or letting victims families pick and perhaps even deliver the fate?


Yes.  There was also a time when blacks had no rights and were not considered human.  There was a time when woman had no rights.  There was a time when the killing of American Indians was considered acceptable.  Do we go back to those also or do we cherry pick those things we like?  

Please re-examine your statistics and you will find that execution is not now nor has it ever been a deterrent to crime.  

Quote
What if it were your child? Your mother? Your gandmother? Even your pet, home or car?

Are you asking me if I have the capacity for hatred and anger?  Of course, I am human.  Funny, though you found that "Gacy did do a lot of good works for his community." I doubt you would hold such a view had it been your child? Your mother? Your grandmother? Even your pet, home or car?   In fact, your own expression was that, "the courts would not even get a chance with them reguardless of color, sexual lifestyle, religious beliefs, etc. "


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GreyCrow

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Re: How can their be "Reverse Discrimination"
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2007, 03:07:15 PM »

Me, myself, I'm PROUD of my bloodline, history and cultures. Why would I want to take that away from another person to be the same? I DO have certain guidelines around my home...
-I do desire for my children to help keep our bloodline going just as I have by having children with a woman of like roots!
Like Will, I think this is particularly shocking, especially since you followed it up with something to the degree of "and from the looks of it this won't be a problem". I would venture to say that if all of our ancestors felt this way and truly acted upon it, there would be a lot less human being in this world. What is so precious about your particular blood line that would be lost if it was mixed with anything else? Would a child of a mixed bloodline be any less entitled to your particular heritage?

It looks like it won't be a problem due to my children being involved and interested in different things.
-Rock music
-Skateboarding
-The Metal scene
-My girls are old enough to have crushes, etc. and everyone they say is hot on TV, in a store, musically, in the community, etc. is someone like them. In all cases not fully like them (dark hair, dark eyes, etc.) but somewhat like them.
-My girls are even old enough that some of they're friends have already gotten into experimenting with drugs, thugs, etc. and they have stopped hanging around with them. They are making the right choices as I have taught them to do when it comes to this. NO wannabe thugs (reguardless of color), NO drugs, NO drink, etc. They are making me proud.

My bloodline is not precious as to being superior to another, but I'm very proud of it. I'm Tuscarora-Iroquois mixed with English and my childrens mother is Eastern Cherokee (or as we say Owshkee) mixed with Italian and English. Our religious beliefs and practice in the home is traditional Native American and some Pagan beliefs. I'm a lodge builder of the Eastern and Western door. I'm also a fire keeper. I'm a traditional grass dancer. On my English side the surenames are Hotham and King. We've had many Knights serve from our family starting with Sir William Hotham in the Order Of The Bath. Napeolean surrendered to a ship under the control of a Hotham. Our Hotham side is from East Yorkshire, England in which we still have much land there from our years of service to the Royal family. Australia was first governed by and helped founded by a Hotham. The King and Hotham names have also made quite an impact in the literature world. On my childrens mothers side, the surename is Elvington which also served the Royal family through knighthood.
These are things that were passed on to me by my grandparents and parents; these are things that I've passed on to my children; these are things that I desire to pass on to grandchildren. When I pass these things on to my grandchildren, I'm hoping that they embrace the stories behind they're family. I'm hoping that they embrace the history, tradition and custom of it just as my chidlren have. I also hope that they share a sense of pride in the family and they're bloodline and try to make our whole family proud by they're actions and path. If this is wrong, then I don't want to be right! I'm hoping that my daughters and son bring home one of either Native American or English background so we have many commons.

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Re: How can their be "Reverse Discrimination"
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2007, 03:27:36 PM »

Quote
He contributed monies to various charties and even was a respect citizen on the surface.

Maybe so but I don't think that this mitigates who he was.  Imagine the argument ala Marge Schotz stating that, "Hitler wasn't all bad, he made the trains run on time".  OK.  But, at what cost to the rest of society.  

Quote
The manicured man has almost replaced the mans man.


I think I understand this and will offer this as a substitute.  The manicured man is replacing the mans-man because our economic system is beginning to value intellect more than ever.  We can debate if this has value but it does not change that this is the case.  

Quote
I might accept them, I may not. I honestly could not tell you. I have yet to experience that situation and from the looks of it, I most likely will not have to.


Thank you for being honest.  When you say, "from the looks of it, I most likely will not have to" have you considered how your world view regarding what is acceptable, emotionally, has created an isolated world for your children.  Think about it this way, if your children do not engage with others because they know you would be displeased is that a positive for the rest of the community or for there long term survival?  

Quote
There was a time when villages of my people would either kill or ban a member of the village for certain crimes. Across the globe America has the worst crime rate, why is that? How about broadcasting executions, or letting victims families pick and perhaps even deliver the fate?


Yes.  There was also a time when blacks had no rights and were not considered human.  There was a time when woman had no rights.  There was a time when the killing of American Indians was considered acceptable.  Do we go back to those also or do we cherry pick those things we like?  

Please re-examine your statistics and you will find that execution is not now nor has it ever been a deterrent to crime.  

Quote
What if it were your child? Your mother? Your gandmother? Even your pet, home or car?

Are you asking me if I have the capacity for hatred and anger?  Of course, I am human.  Funny, though you found that "Gacy did do a lot of good works for his community." I doubt you would hold such a view had it been your child? Your mother? Your grandmother? Even your pet, home or car?   In fact, your own expression was that, "the courts would not even get a chance with them reguardless of color, sexual lifestyle, religious beliefs, etc. "




#1
I know that I'll take heat for this, but Hitler did unite his countrymen. Can we say that Bush has done anything to do the same? When is the last time we had a leader that made you feel as if your countryman was your brother? Prior to his starting the killing machine he was actually a great leader, but he abused his power and influence.

#2
The manicured mans stupidy is job security for others. But at the same time it is also a breakdown in our communities and standards. I play football with my son because I'm not afriad to get dirty. I show him how I work on our cars so that he may teach his son. I show him how I work on our home so that he may do the same, etc. I'm a man! A god, a warrior, a provider, a fixer, a protector, etc. as it should be. As it was and still is for some.

#3
My children have a couple friends, team-mates from other races at school and in our neighborhood. No problem. I just don't desire for them to marry them or have their children. Truth is that most black, hispanic and problably even asian kids don't have the same likes and commons as my children do. There is not a huge Native American population in the city that "hero tagged" Custer, so my children hang out with kids that have the same likes and commons as them who are mostly white. I have not isolated they're world at all.

#4
Execution would be just fine based on my theory: I believe that America should have a "Predator" tag. This tag would apply to those who harm children, woman and elders, also to repeated offenders. Once a person is tagged as a predator, execute them as we do not need them in our communities and we don't need to waste tax payers money on them either. This would free up needed dollars, some jobs, and land that we no longer need to create more jails.

#5
Actually I find Gacy to be one of the most dangerous "Predators" that America has ever had! Even more so because he was able to wear a mask and blend in for so long. He was delt with accordingly. If it were my son that Gacy preyed upon he may not have made it to the trial for his crimes. He did do good works for his community; how many organizations benifited from his construction company proceeds and works? How many people did those organizations help? As I stated before... in every negative there is a positive, in every dark and light.   

Will Sweat

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Re: How can their be "Reverse Discrimination"
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2007, 04:01:50 PM »

Quote
When is the last time we had a leader that made you feel as if your countryman was your brother?


George Bush - in the months following 9/11.

Quote
The manicured mans stupidy is job security for others.


This is a silly assumption.  Your assuming that these folks are stupid because they do not exhibit the traits you find manly.  The proclamation that, I'm a man! A god, a warrior, a provider, a fixer, a protector, etc. as it should be. As it was and still is for some.  Assumes that those you refer to as manicured men do not do these things and I doubt wholesale such an assumption is correct. 

Quote
There is not a huge Native American population in the city that "hero tagged" Custer, so my children hang out with kids that have the same likes and commons as them who are mostly white. I have not isolated they're world at all.


Actually, there are quite a few Native Americans in not only the City but the County that I know of. 

Something to consider about the whole "hero tagged" regarding Custer.   The battle of Little Big Horn occurred June 25th, 1876 and on July 6th word reached Monroe.  At that time, Mayor Spaulding ordered a public meeting in front of the courthouse at 4:00 pm the following afternoon.  Custer's photo along with the streets were draped with crepe.  The citizen's that day, mourned the loss of a friend and neighbor.  Gen. Custer's marriage to Libby Bacon and her subsequent return to Monroe on August 4th cemented the feeling that a community had lost a friend, neighbor.  A long time and prominent resident had lost a husband was one of great grief. 

From that moment until 1910 there was a drive to have a monument placed in his honor.  While I will not disagree with the assessment that Gen. Custer's actions were wrong I would offer that as you have said (in some respect) there is a yin - yan to all things.  Custer, although aberrant to some, was loved as nothing more than a friend, neighbor and husband to many in Monroe.  This is part of the reason for the statue - not necessary to make him a hero. 

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Execution would be just fine based on my theory: I believe that America should have a "Predator" tag.

Again, the real problem with this becomes "tagging" those who are wrongly convicted.  Bear in mind, as I just mentioned Custer, he felt his actions were justified against what was believed to be savages. 

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He did do good works for his community; how many organizations benifited from his construction company proceeds and works? How many people did those organizations help? As I stated before... in every negative there is a positive, in every dark and light.


And the positives never out weight the negatives because the end can never justify the means - can it? 

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GreyCrow

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Re: How can their be "Reverse Discrimination"
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2007, 08:12:17 PM »

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When is the last time we had a leader that made you feel as if your countryman was your brother?


George Bush - in the months following 9/11.

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The manicured mans stupidy is job security for others.


This is a silly assumption.  Your assuming that these folks are stupid because they do not exhibit the traits you find manly.  The proclamation that, I'm a man! A god, a warrior, a provider, a fixer, a protector, etc. as it should be. As it was and still is for some.  Assumes that those you refer to as manicured men do not do these things and I doubt wholesale such an assumption is correct. 

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There is not a huge Native American population in the city that "hero tagged" Custer, so my children hang out with kids that have the same likes and commons as them who are mostly white. I have not isolated they're world at all.


Actually, there are quite a few Native Americans in not only the City but the County that I know of. 

Something to consider about the whole "hero tagged" regarding Custer.   The battle of Little Big Horn occurred June 25th, 1876 and on July 6th word reached Monroe.  At that time, Mayor Spaulding ordered a public meeting in front of the courthouse at 4:00 pm the following afternoon.  Custer's photo along with the streets were draped with crepe.  The citizen's that day, mourned the loss of a friend and neighbor.  Gen. Custer's marriage to Libby Bacon and her subsequent return to Monroe on August 4th cemented the feeling that a community had lost a friend, neighbor.  A long time and prominent resident had lost a husband was one of great grief. 

From that moment until 1910 there was a drive to have a monument placed in his honor.  While I will not disagree with the assessment that Gen. Custer's actions were wrong I would offer that as you have said (in some respect) there is a yin - yan to all things.  Custer, although aberrant to some, was loved as nothing more than a friend, neighbor and husband to many in Monroe.  This is part of the reason for the statue - not necessary to make him a hero. 

Quote
Execution would be just fine based on my theory: I believe that America should have a "Predator" tag.

Again, the real problem with this becomes "tagging" those who are wrongly convicted.  Bear in mind, as I just mentioned Custer, he felt his actions were justified against what was believed to be savages. 

Quote
He did do good works for his community; how many organizations benifited from his construction company proceeds and works? How many people did those organizations help? As I stated before... in every negative there is a positive, in every dark and light.


And the positives never out weight the negatives because the end can never justify the means - can it? 



#1
Bush is and has been a liar since day one! How many of our young soldiers will never see American soil due to him and his misdirecting, poor leadership, wrong decisions, etc. The people of America bonded together for the brief moment due to pain and anger, not anything to do with Bush. How many flags do you see now? How many yellow ribbons now? My house is one of two on my whole block that still has the yellow ribbons and flags waving!

#2
My definition of Manicured man is as follows...
One whom has lost his strength, voice, brawn, back bone. One whom does not take the time to be his inner child with his children thus helping to nurture them. The metro sexual; lmao. The one who is affraid to get his hands dirty by wrenching on his car or home and teaching his son these very lessons so that he may carry on the mans man tradition. The one who sits in the house on video games all day instead of painting the fence. The one sits on the couch while his woman works. The one who pays more time to his car or other material items than he does his goddess or children. One who does not fish because baiting the hook is gross; lmao. One who does not hunt because its too cold out in them woods. One who gets manicures; lmao. One who threatens to call the cops rather than punching someone in the face for disrespecting his goddess. The one who is muted, broken and goal-less. One who cannot or will not try to protect his family, property, country, etc.
 
#3
Custer was Americas Hitler! He may have been a good neighbor, friend, etc. to some. But MY perception of him is being America's Hitler and I'm VERY pleased that he was shot down by a 17 year old kid since so many times him and his men raided villages when the warriors were off to war or hunting! He killed many women, elders and children so his end was fitting.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2007, 08:19:49 PM by GreyCrow »
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Will Sweat

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Re: How can their be "Reverse Discrimination"
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2007, 08:51:15 PM »

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Custer was Americas Hitler!


The problem with that is that Custer, while culpable for following orders, was not elected or appointed and therefore he did net set forth the rules of engagement.  Hitler, if I recall, was asked to step in after the fire at the reichstag (of course we can debate if he or some of his associates set the fire). 

Grey Crow, I am kinda shocked that someone who can see the good in the life of John Wayne Gacy has such a stark view of the life of George Custer.  Again, with out defending Custer, I do find more merit in his existence than that of Gacy.  Consider Custer's actions during the Civil War and ask those were not of more service to his community than John Gacy supporting charities. 

Again, neither figure should be lionized in my estimation. 
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no one gets my name right anyway

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Re: How can their be "Reverse Discrimination"
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2007, 07:44:10 AM »

My definition of Manicured man is as follows...
One whom has lost his strength, voice, brawn, back bone. One whom does not take the time to be his inner child with his children thus helping to nurture them. The metro sexual; lmao. The one who is affraid to get his hands dirty by wrenching on his car or home and teaching his son these very lessons so that he may carry on the mans man tradition. The one who sits in the house on video games all day instead of painting the fence. The one sits on the couch while his woman works. The one who pays more time to his car or other material items than he does his goddess or children. One who does not fish because baiting the hook is gross; lmao. One who does not hunt because its too cold out in them woods. One who gets manicures; lmao. One who threatens to call the cops rather than punching someone in the face for disrespecting his goddess. The one who is muted, broken and goal-less. One who cannot or will not try to protect his family, property, country, etc.
 

I find it interesting that you put down men who have behaviors more similar to "traditional" woman stereotypes. Your ideal man, in fact, sounds like someone who perpetuates all the American male stereotypes - sadly, I thought this was something our society was trying to get away from. Can you not value human beings for their individuality? Why must "men" behave in this way? What are your ideals for women - "barefoot and pregnant"?
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GreyCrow

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Re: How can their be "Reverse Discrimination"
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2007, 08:11:52 AM »

My definition of Manicured man is as follows...
One whom has lost his strength, voice, brawn, back bone. One whom does not take the time to be his inner child with his children thus helping to nurture them. The metro sexual; lmao. The one who is affraid to get his hands dirty by wrenching on his car or home and teaching his son these very lessons so that he may carry on the mans man tradition. The one who sits in the house on video games all day instead of painting the fence. The one sits on the couch while his woman works. The one who pays more time to his car or other material items than he does his goddess or children. One who does not fish because baiting the hook is gross; lmao. One who does not hunt because its too cold out in them woods. One who gets manicures; lmao. One who threatens to call the cops rather than punching someone in the face for disrespecting his goddess. The one who is muted, broken and goal-less. One who cannot or will not try to protect his family, property, country, etc.
 

I find it interesting that you put down men who have behaviors more similar to "traditional" woman stereotypes. Your ideal man, in fact, sounds like someone who perpetuates all the American male stereotypes - sadly, I thought this was something our society was trying to get away from. Can you not value human beings for their individuality? Why must "men" behave in this way? What are your ideals for women - "barefoot and pregnant"?

Lmao... NO actually my ideals and view of women are as follows...
-Goddess
-Gifted with the gift of being able to concieve life
-More understanding and patience than the man (she completes the balance in any relationship)
-Etc.
I could go on but I won't. I'm a bit old fashioned in many of my ways.

RIGHTFUL PLACES Mind-Blast 11:05:06
Oppression and "broken-ness" are states of being broken self. In order to become such you must be weak enough to be oppressed, to be defeated, to be broken. GET OFF OF YOUR KNEES, and take your rightful stance given to you at birth! Every male was created to be the strength, provider, hunter for, and protector of, his circle; your name is god/warrior! Every woman was created with the strengths of self cleansing, binding love, recreation of life and more understanding then the warrior; your name is goddess/love! Without you knowing your role, it will be lost and cut from our circle thus leading to unbalance. Where are you now? Where are we heading?

© Grey Crow


SHINE

I’m convinced that this world is an Anaconda,
Swallowing us whole.
Nothing matters,
Nothing is sacred,
Not even the description in bold.
Get what you can get from its stomach,
Before its jaws close you into darkness.
Learn to accept your fate.
This fate is not just yours,
But all of ours,
Ever so often distorting and heartless.
As we, are all connected.
Relations,
Of one circle with the same lifeline and pattern.
Everyone has they’re moment of reign
Even if it is brief and scattered.
Enjoy your moment,
While its stars are swirling over your head,
Making you drunk on the paused time.
Sooner or later, time will start again,
And your moment will only be a memory inside.
Your memory will be what you’ve made of your moment.
But even the most brief of moments,
Will last forever as either inner sun or torment.
What? Why? How? The cycle will spin,
Memories are eternal,
They either light you,
Or dim you from within.
Shine!

© GreyCrow


MACHINES PLOT

Restrictions of thought crown the world
No more dreams given to boy and girl
Damn the children with muted sleep
Charcoal they’re neon eyes for keeps
Pause the vision and create false finders
Limit they’re sights with focused blinders
Confine them to the math of lies
Erase they’re genius until it snaps and hides
The truth is to be painted for them as mazes
Medicate all thinkers into thought cages
Enslave them.

© Grey Crow


POWERED SELF Mind-Blast 10:03:06
We dig until into this **** hole of a world until our shovel breaks. Trying to find our true self? Trying to find purpose? YOUR DIGGING IN THE WRONG PLACE! Exit your Eden tale and soul shackles for your freedom. Your god waits inside of you. Stare into the mirror. STARE INTO THE MIRROR! Your own eyes are the gateway to your own heavens. How do yours reflect? What do yours reflect? Quit limiting your self. GET OFF OF YOUR KNEES! Awaken to your divine powers given to you at birth!

© Grey Crow


Q & A: MIND-BLAST 101306
I long to know why the questions of questions could only be answered by other questions. Are we limited in thought by forced blinders, and false perceptions that we are told are normal?
School teachers are too often lie Nazi’s, teaching from a lying thesis, written by a broken mind that could not find the truth in a virgin vagina painted in neon shades with arrows pointing this way to your feelings; ****’em!
I’ve come to understand feeling and the expansion of such as being the only common answer to any question considered to be answered by another question. Turn off the lights and roam around the garden naked, sooner or later your answer in the form of a question will make you feel. Trip-fall-bitten; what in the hell was that?

© Grey Crow


CHANGE? (Mind-Blast)
When was the last time someone made you believe an idea, an impulse, a thought, a feeling, a lie?

THIS IS SOCIETIES MIND SPEAKING: Put your blinders back on.

Madmen have been tagged where a rooted structure of genius once stood. Why do they not understand?

THIS IS SOCIETIES MIND SPEAKING: Those not in the box will be shot.

Those not in the box will be shot? Think about that for a moment. Now, take the breath from your creation, scorn its senses, blind its sight and get back inside the box. Feel better now?

THIS IS SOCIETIES MIND SPEAKING:.......

PAUSE! Sorry but societies mind and rules do not apply here. Here, those of us whom desire and indulge in flight are glide immaculate. Allow me to explain. I represent an imagination shackled, thought deprived generation, really. Just list the words FREE and READY to watch them line up. It seems as if the minds using the most imagination any more, are the children. But society is quick to crown them with blinders. Clocks, time studies, graphs, tables and pie charts have invaded the open apartment where imagination once made home.
Evict the senses! Evict the sight! Feeling, thought, breath. EVICT! EVICT! EVICT!

Society wants us to be just like them; controlled them. They have these ideas of what the perfect-productive-piece of ****-numb-programmed-multi tasked-walking corpse should be like. The sad thing, is that it is working.

THIS CHANNEL HAS BEEN REPROGRAMMED AND EDITED JUST FOR YOU!

Truth is that Dr. Sesus books have more depth and open range than the language and composition books the machines ally, The School, tries to feed us. The work place, the school, societies machine, the government monster, all pieces of The Machine. Their plot wheel has 100 spaces filled with the same shallow line; subject to change. So what is really changing? Has the text in the rule book changed? Have people changed? Or is it the fact that people have changed to accept the changes of their change that has changed?

© Grey Crow







Skippy

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Re: How can their be "Reverse Discrimination"
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2007, 11:34:06 AM »

By definition in the American Heritage Dictionary.

Discrimination; Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice


Reverse discrimination to me, would mean having none at all. Yet, there are lawsuits, and civil battles that are fueled by reverse discrimination. It seems like we have focused the meaning of the word to be specifically white people against any other skin colored people.

If we were really all that worried about being politically correct about white, African American, Hispanic and so on, why isn't "white" or "caucasian" changed to "___________ American" (fill in the blank)

I am Irish American by definition, so why do I have to say I am white? And do all dark skinned people consider themselves African American?

There is only one human race, until we teach our kids and resist the pathways of our prejudice predecessors, discrimination will exist.

Reverse discrimination was and is a very real thing. If you read the definition you posted, it can be applied to ANYONE, regardless of color. Discrimination got it's start and came into being when qualified people of color WERE treated differently because of their color. Reverse discrimination came into being when the establishment went way too far the other way, unconstitutionally I might add, in a feeble attempt to make amends. I'll give you a good example. I am a white male and I applied to a state police agency in the early 90's after getting out of the service. I scored a 97% on the written test, which is the very first step in the process. I never heard back from them at all in regards to further testing and interviews. When I called back, I was told I didn't score high enough. Now, mind you, I had no criminal record and no substance abuse issues whatsoever, was in great physical shape, and had just served 4 years in the Military Police. You would think this is what they would have been looking for. Why didn't I get any further in the testing? Because their practice back then was that white males had to get 100% on the written test before being given further consideration. I did my research into this later on and found this to be true, which really disgusted me. People of color had to score only 75% to be given further consideration.
I think the only fair way to do ANY hiring would be to hire the most qualified applicant. If that applicant happens to be white, then he/she gets the job. If they are of color, then they get it. I lost several "Soldier of the Month" contests while in the service to people of color and I had no problem with it whatsoever-they did better than me! This is a very complex issue that I feel hasn't been addressed properly. It used to be that people of color were at an extreme disadvantage when it came to looking for gainful employment for which they were well qualified. Often times they didn't get hired because of their color, which is very unfair. Instead of allowing these cases to be addressed properly by the discriminated persons pursuing legal action on a case by case basis, law makers and bureaucrats appear to have sought a quick fix by mandating practices such as what happened to me, to the detriment of fairness.
I had absolutely nothing to do with being born white, as did people of color being born that way. Giving any type of preferential treatment to ANY qualified person over another qualified person because of how they looked when they came into this world is wrong, any way you slice it!  
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