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jbs49238

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Re: Gold, Silver, and the IRS. What they don't want you to know!
« Reply #1455 on: December 06, 2011, 08:18:21 AM »

SMASH,

Funny the last time I bought gas I paid $3 (DOLLARS) and 38cents (FRACTION OF A DOLLAR) not $3.38FRN.  Silver is still bought and sold on the open market in US dollars.  Not US FRN account dollars or whatever you want to call them.  You post was a waste of time, however I am not surprised that was the best response you could muster after 4 1/2 days (or should I call them US calander accounting units?). 

And it is good to know you consider your candidate a baboon.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 08:20:58 AM by jbs49238 »
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SMASH

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Re: Gold, Silver, and the IRS. What they don't want you to know!
« Reply #1456 on: December 06, 2011, 11:41:46 PM »

SMASH,

Funny the last time I bought gas I paid $3 (DOLLARS) and 38cents (FRACTION OF A DOLLAR) not $3.38FRN.  Silver is still bought and sold on the open market in US dollars.  Not US FRN account dollars or whatever you want to call them.  You post was a waste of time, however I am not surprised that was the best response you could muster after 4 1/2 days (or should I call them US calander accounting units?). 

And it is good to know you consider your candidate a baboon.
You post was a waste of time.

Mine or yours?

You not only took the time to read it, you took the time to reply.

however I am not surprised that was the best response you could muster after 4 1/2 days.

I agree my last post may not have been up to the standard you are accustomed to but I have had some family issues to deal with.
My wife on 02DEC11 was cut from port to starboard across the hips in an attempt to extract what was perceived to be ovarian cancer.
Thankfully it was not, considering Postmenopausal breast cancer runs rampant in her family.
Consequently I have had my attention focused here on the homefront.

You in no way could have known.
No harm, no foul.
I will be back in the saddle and will address your last post ASAP.

One thing that has become quite evident is the fact we tend to get hung up in the definitions of specific items.
As we move forward I will try and be more specific on the items I refer to.

I don't want this conversation to be muddled up in semantics.

I think that is exactly how we have ended up where we are as a Nation.

(or should I call them US calander accounting units?).

That's some good S**T! I'll give you that one!
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 11:45:27 PM by SMASH »
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LessGovernment

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Re: Gold, Silver, and the IRS. What they don't want you to know!
« Reply #1457 on: December 07, 2011, 10:51:28 AM »

This is another individual's explanation of our system - and worth dissecting by those still debunking the idea that precious metals ARE money!

"First, the U.S. government does borrow money from private banks, it sells, through the Open Market Committee, U.S. Treasuries in the form of Notes with various terms of maturity, various forms of Bonds, including Savings Bonds. It sells these security instruments to individuals, to investment houses, pension funds, foreign governments, banks, corporations,etc.

The major holders of our debt therefore, are foreign governments, and about half of our debt has been borrowed from ourselves in the from of inner-governmental purchases.

Now, since it has been very apparent from the beginning that you don't really understand the process on just how this corrupt system works, I will once again attempt to explain it again.

The system that we are now subjected to follows a basic blueprint that was laid out during the Lincoln administration, it was based upon creating an artificial market for debt securities in order to maintain a fiat currency system that could not function without it! Like the Lincoln Greenback system, the government would issue fiat bonds to sale in order to borrow, the fiat notes having no direct interest obligation in and of themselves. However, during the Lincoln administration there were about 6 different types of fiat legal tender notes put into circulation, not just the Greenbacks themselves. Some of these money notes used as circulating tender, had half-year coupons which paid interest every 6 months, some were flat 5% interest notes and then the were compound notes issued also, the entire system created a debt load for the Union that was enormous, in fact, the debt accrued during the Lincoln administration adjusted for inflation would be greater than the debt we now face in this country.

Anyway, the system we have today was based on the system that first began under Lincoln, it is set on a standard of fiat money and fiat bonds.

The United States government issues several different kinds of bonds through the Bureau of the Public Debt, an agency U.S. Department of the Treasury. Treasury debt securities are classified according to their maturities:

Treasury Bills have maturities of one year or less.
Treasury Notes have maturities of two to ten years.
Treasury Bonds have maturities greater than ten years.
Treasury Bonds, Bills, and Notes are all issued in face values of $1,000, though there are different purchase minimums for each type of security.

Investors often shorten the word Treasury to just the letter "T" when referring to these bonds. Thus, Treasury Bonds are known as T-Bonds, Treasury Notes are called T-Notes, and Treasury Bills are T-Bills.

Treasury Bills are issued in three maturities. Bills with 91-day and 182-day maturities are auctioned by the Treasury each Monday. 364-day Bills are auctioned every four weeks on Thursday, 13 times a year. The interest rate of T-Bills is determined at each auction, depending on what bidders are willing to pay. T-Bills do not make interest payments, however. Instead, they are purchased at a discount to face value. They are the only Treasury securities that sell at a discount.

U.S. Treasury Notes are issued in two-, three-, five-, and ten-year maturities. The two year and five year Notes are auctioned each month, while the three year Notes are issued quarterly, and ten year Notes are auctioned six times a year. All Notes pay interest twice a year, and expire at par value.

Treasury Bonds are usually issued in thirty-year maturities, and pay interest twice a year.

No matter what you're buying, you can often get a better deal when you buy direct. And the U.S. Treasury has a special program for individual investors to help cut out the middleman and help you to purchase T-Bonds, Bills, and Notes.

The program is called Treasury Direct, and it allows you to set up an account to make purchases of Treasury securities at auction, along with all the big guns. The main attraction of Treasury Direct is that there are no brokerage fees or other transaction charges when you buy through the program. (There is a $25 per account annual maintenance fee, but only if your account is greater than $100,000.)

To set up a Treasury Direct account, you'll need to fill out an application form that you can download from the program's web site. The minimum investments in Treasury Direct are $10,000 for bills; $5,000 for notes maturing in less than five years; and $1,000 for securities that mature in five or more years. Interest is then paid into your Treasury Direct account, as is a security's par value when it matures.

Now, the tricky part comes from the manner in which the securities are issued domestically and how the amount of that Security is associated with money creation. The FED, normally on orders from the U.S Treasury Secretary, buys a U.S. Treasury Bond by writing a "check" on a "readily liquidity account", basically it is an account that has no money in it, for the amount of the U.S. Security, that check is the deposited in the account of a Commercial Bank at the FED as a reserve, the the bank, using fractional reserve banking can make loans up to its reserve limits, multiplying the reserves several times over. (very simplified explanation here)

Essentially however, this government does not really borrow from banks, the problem with the whole dishonest system is that fiat bonds are securitized by fiat paper money substitutes which are in turn securitized by fiat bonds. The whole thing is a scam with no real asset values behind it, the debt under any fiat regime can never be repaid, the debt is only swapped because of the fact that there are no real assets involved in debt transactions, you cannot pay a debt obligation with a debt obligation, it is impossible, there are only two ultimate options under a fiat monetary system, that is default or inflate the debt away."

[source: http://www.dailypaul.com/152389/the-gold-standard-debunked-video#comment-1998685]
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"Wherefore governments rather depend upon men than men upon governments. Let men be good, and the government cannot be bad; if it be ill, they will cure it. But, if men be bad, let the government be ever so good, they will endeavor to warp and spoil it to their turn." - William Penn

toobad

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Re: Gold, Silver, and the IRS. What they don't want you to know!
« Reply #1458 on: December 08, 2011, 01:47:44 PM »

Nice post Less! Maybe JBS will read it. Pretty much spells out the fiat scam. Isn't there a song out about this, Money for Nothing.
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jbs49238

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Re: Gold, Silver, and the IRS. What they don't want you to know!
« Reply #1459 on: December 08, 2011, 03:01:18 PM »

Nice post Less! Maybe JBS will read it. Pretty much spells out the fiat scam. Isn't there a song out about this, Money for Nothing.

I did read it, and it does nothing to prove that metals are nothing more than instuments used as investments to gain more wealth.  I.E. metals are not money and will not be until you can take them to a store a demand goods or services for them as is.

Do metals have value?  Yes, I don't disagree there but so does a house, a car, scrap metal, baseball cards, and on and on.  Amazingly, none of those things are money either.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 04:38:46 PM by jbs49238 »
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Brian Beneteau

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Re: Gold, Silver, and the IRS. What they don't want you to know!
« Reply #1460 on: December 08, 2011, 09:12:58 PM »

I did read it, and it does nothing to prove that metals are nothing more than instuments used as investments to gain more wealth.  I.E. metals are not money and will not be until you can take them to a store a demand goods or services for them as is.

Do metals have value?  Yes, I don't disagree there but so does a house, a car, scrap metal, baseball cards, and on and on.  Amazingly, none of those things are money either.
And what if the US calls in or makes obsolete all of the existing currency? Does your silver and gold become money since you will still have purchasing power and also the ability to "buy" new currency with this silver and gold's value?
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sammy

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Re: Gold, Silver, and the IRS. What they don't want you to know!
« Reply #1461 on: December 08, 2011, 09:22:21 PM »

Nope.
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Brian Beneteau

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Re: Gold, Silver, and the IRS. What they don't want you to know!
« Reply #1462 on: December 08, 2011, 10:14:53 PM »

Nope.
I beg to differ. Now one could say that gold and silver possess no different uses than say...a house, a car, scrap metal, baseball cards...however, which of these items could you easily transport to any country in the world and receive monetary equivalents? The value of the paper can be made zero by a whim of the Feds, however the value of gold and silver have always and will always have value, no matter what individual countries do. When the US paper dollar is transformed into whatever new currency the Feds choose to use when their time comes, at that time you will see the real value of a current US dollar versus gold and silver.
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jbs49238

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Re: Gold, Silver, and the IRS. What they don't want you to know!
« Reply #1463 on: December 09, 2011, 09:22:08 AM »

I beg to differ. Now one could say that gold and silver possess no different uses than say...a house, a car, scrap metal, baseball cards...however, which of these items could you easily transport to any country in the world and receive monetary equivalents? The value of the paper can be made zero by a whim of the Feds, however the value of gold and silver have always and will always have value, no matter what individual countries do. When the US paper dollar is transformed into whatever new currency the Feds choose to use when their time comes, at that time you will see the real value of a current US dollar versus gold and silver.

I am not saying metals wont have value Brian, that is why I hold some, however they simply are not money.  Can they be traded for money?  Yes.  Will they out perform the other things I listed if the sheet hits the fan?  Yes.  They still are not money.
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toobad

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Re: Gold, Silver, and the IRS. What they don't want you to know!
« Reply #1464 on: December 09, 2011, 11:57:31 AM »

Sammy,

If the crap does hit the fan, and my bet is it will. YOU ARE IN DEEP TROUBLE!

JBS,

Isn't the fiat dollar just an instrument of barter who's value is controlled by the central banks? My point is why not go back to a metals based fixed value currency where the citizens carry certificates, backed by holdings in deposit, before 1933 metals were "money". This can be done on a global scale as before.
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Brian Beneteau

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Re: Gold, Silver, and the IRS. What they don't want you to know!
« Reply #1465 on: December 09, 2011, 09:32:06 PM »

I am not saying metals wont have value Brian, that is why I hold some, however they simply are not money.  Can they be traded for money?  Yes.  Will they out perform the other things I listed if the sheet hits the fan?  Yes.  They still are not money.
Actually metals are better than money. Metals can be traded for whatever one wishes to purchase, albeit conversion to fiat currency must be done first in most cases, and metals hold real value regardless of where in the world they are held. Money, or fiat currency, only has value until the government declares it obsolete and/or replaces it with another form of fiat currency that is made to be used as money for all debts, public and private. Where gold and silver have forever been accepted as payment and will for all time be accepted as payment (with the conversion mentioned above), the USD is really only as good as the paper it is printed on and for as long as the issuing government deems it able to be used as payment.
Tell you what. If someone were to give you $1,000,000 USD or it's equivalent value in gold and silver, and told you that you could not spend it for 25 years, which would you take?
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lordfly

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Re: Gold, Silver, and the IRS. What they don't want you to know!
« Reply #1466 on: December 09, 2011, 09:37:45 PM »

Gold is only worth something because we say it is. There is nothing inherently specific to gold that makes it valuable. It's just shiny and can be made into jewelry rather easily.

So, in 25 years, if the world suddenly came to its senses and realized jewelry's stupid, and yellow is the worst color imaginable, I think your pile of gold would be worth significantly less.

Gold is the historical equivalent of a Beanie Baby. It's valuable because the experts told me it's valuable.
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sammy

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Re: Gold, Silver, and the IRS. What they don't want you to know!
« Reply #1467 on: December 09, 2011, 09:46:09 PM »

Gold is only worth something because we say it is. There is nothing inherently specific to gold that makes it valuable. It's just shiny and can be made into jewelry rather easily.

So, in 25 years, if the world suddenly came to its senses and realized jewelry's stupid, and yellow is the worst color imaginable, I think your pile of gold would be worth significantly less.

Gold is the historical equivalent of a Beanie Baby. It's valuable because the experts told me it's valuable.

So glad I never put my money into Beanie Babies!
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Brian Beneteau

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Re: Gold, Silver, and the IRS. What they don't want you to know!
« Reply #1468 on: December 09, 2011, 09:52:09 PM »

Gold is only worth something because we say it is. There is nothing inherently specific to gold that makes it valuable. It's just shiny and can be made into jewelry rather easily.

So, in 25 years, if the world suddenly came to its senses and realized jewelry's stupid, and yellow is the worst color imaginable, I think your pile of gold would be worth significantly less.

Gold is the historical equivalent of a Beanie Baby. It's valuable because the experts told me it's valuable.
Perhaps a look back in history would prove your statement incorrect, however, to each his or her own. Some can keep Beanie Babies, others can keep baseball cards, many would keep USD. Of course those with Beanie's and baseball cards know that those items were collectibles, not monetary items that world economies rely on.
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sammy

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Re: Gold, Silver, and the IRS. What they don't want you to know!
« Reply #1469 on: December 09, 2011, 10:06:02 PM »

Perhaps a look back in history would prove your statement incorrect, however, to each his or her own. Some can keep Beanie Babies, others can keep baseball cards, many would keep USD. Of course those with Beanie's and baseball cards know that those items were collectibles, not monetary items that world economies rely on.
World economies rely on gold? Where, exactly is that gold? Who owns it ? Not talking about the gold my Dad owned . Where is THE GOLD?! Fort Knox?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 10:07:33 PM by sammy »
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