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riar

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Re: General Betrayus
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2007, 11:02:01 PM »

riar:

Spare me the mumbo jumbo.  Let's try to focus here. These pols, whom profess to support the troops, "condone", in your words, the worst sort of slander that any soldier can be accused of,
that he betrayed his country. These two positions are diametrically opposed. You can't have both.

Well well. LHL


I responded to this way earlier and it disappeared. I don't understand why conservatives cannot seem to separate the troops from their leaders. Is a grunt the same as a general? A soldier follows orders. He or she will go into battle knowing full well they won't come out alive. That is honor in action. Our soldiers, especially these soldiers are amazing men and women to go back, and back, and back again, living on a knife's edge day and night. The mental strength they have to leave and reunite with their families over and over knowing the odds may run out. They find their own justification for being there, each has a personal drive that keeps he or she going and carry on without complaint, many of who embrace the children of Iraq, as a reason for their presence, the need for their defense. From interviews I've seen of the soldiers this is the Iraq experience. But the politics of the war is a whole other story. We should not even be there. This administration is not above hunting around to find a leader who follows their views. Like I said, one general says one thing, another something else. There is an awful lot of graft going on with this war from both sides left and right. The war is rotten, the leaders who perpetrate the war are dishonest, the soldiers who fight the war God bless them. They enter this battle as they are told and do an upstanding job despite what they may or may not feel. Their's is not the place to ask but to do, and they're doing it, even though a stinking back door draft exists and they know it, and their families know it. 
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John Kopke

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Re: General Betrayus
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2007, 11:14:16 PM »

riar:
It is annoying having your post disappear.  I think what happens is someone else is posting at the same time. I've learn to copy my post before I post. Then if it vanishes it isn't any big deal to resurrect.

As far as your latest post. I'm not sure what topic it belongs in, but this isn't it.
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John Kopke

doubtfire

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Re: General Betrayus
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2007, 11:27:25 PM »

John, Do you consider the Admiral for whom General Petraeus works for, unpatriotic?

Quote
WASHINGTON, Sep 12 (IPS) - In sharp contrast to the lionisation of Gen. David Petraeus by members of the U.S. Congress during his testimony this week, Petraeus's superior, Admiral William Fallon, chief of the Central Command (CENTCOM), derided Petraeus as a sycophant during their first meeting in Baghdad last March, according to Pentagon sources familiar with reports of the meeting.

Fallon told Petraeus that he considered him to be "an a**-kissing little chickensh**" and added, "I hate people like that", the sources say. That remark reportedly came after Petraeus began the meeting by making remarks that Fallon interpreted as trying to ingratiate himself with a superior.


Riley97:

No I don't consider the Admiral unpatriotic if he made those remarks.  If we were to examine history I'm sure we would find many examples of people making unflattering remarks about even Eisenhower, Patton, McArthur
and George Washington. Yet I'm confident if any organization in their time were to take out a full page ad in
a major newspaper, and link the word "betray" to these men's names, there would have been hell to pay,
as there should be today.

Now you can dance around all you want, but the bottom line is moveon.org crossed the line big time
with this disgraceful ad. And if the Dem presidential candidates are too afraid of moveon.org to speak
out against this ad, then heaven help us if they're ever elected President.

    I believe that John Kopke said this about Move On crossing the line. HELLO!!!! What did "Swift Boat Veterans for truth" do to John Kerry?  Talk about slandering someones' good name. Nothing surprising though, that is a republican tactic. If your man doesn't look too good, then smear the other fellow. John Kerry served his country honorably, and he fought bravely in Vietnam. But since Bush was AWOL from his guard service, they attacked Kerrys' service.  I read that those men who made the ad were honored later with medals. PLEASE! Everything the republican party stands for is a lie. Sorry, John, but thats the truth.

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riar

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Re: General Betrayus
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2007, 11:39:13 PM »

riar:
It is annoying having your post disappear.  I think what happens is someone else is posting at the same time. I've learn to copy my post before I post. Then if it vanishes it isn't any big deal to resurrect.

As far as your latest post. I'm not sure what topic it belongs in, but this isn't it.

It is in direct response to this: I've seen many threads where those on the left are outraged when we on the right question their patriotism, or whether they truly support the troops.

You on the right question my patriotism on the left relative to supporting the troops and I assume you mean to say "but not the war." The above is my lefty explanation of being able to separate my admiration for soldiers in general from a stinking war like Iraq. 
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sue lee

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Re: General Betrayal
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2007, 12:26:52 AM »

We shouldn't forget how the Bush campaign slandered John McCain, another war hero. Why is it okay for Republicans to do it?
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Normal Joe

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Re: General Betrayus
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2007, 01:16:37 PM »

The general has proven himself in combat, and was awarded a bronze star...the move on people are blowing hot wind in the air, and they can have themselves. >:(
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Crysti

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Re: General Betrayus
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2007, 02:42:28 PM »

Excuse me, riar AND suelee, but several of your favorite liberal dems voted for the war, I mean wasn't it you who said in your post: "The war is rotten, the leaders who perpetrate the war are dishonest?" Obama is the only liberal who disagreed with the war from the get go...let remember that. The democrats can end the war you know. They can cut off funding! They won't because they would appear more anti-patriotic than they already do. They just want the American people to think they can do nothing to end the war--like we are that stupid! Check out who has the lower ratings: our congress or the president. Americans are smarter than that!

As a conservative, there is no better way to see liberalism and the Democratic party being exposed than by left wing groups like MoveOn.org. Please keep speaking MoveOn.org!

John...I enjoy your posts. Very informative. :)
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Frenchfry

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Re: General Betrayus
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2007, 03:36:41 PM »

John...I enjoy your posts. Very informative.

For narrow minded folks perhaps.

The guy watches Rush for his news.......... (the roll eyes quit working, it's just a smiley now)
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This is what I see when I visit:

"Sorry Frenchfry, you are banned from posting and sending personal messages on this forum.
This ban is not set to expire."

No emails, no warnings, no communication whatsoever...just that ban

May be what happened to the other libs as well.

I guess disabling the report to admin link only on the lib side was indicative of the slanted games they play.

Enjoy your spoon-fed Faux News type right-wing echo-chamber.

Edited to add:

This is the only way to answer some of the questions posed:

1) I did nothing to warrant the banishment, it's political.

2) It's the router that's blocked but considering all the nonsense right-wing games being played by those running the site...it's just not worth it to bypass the banishment block.

3) The moron stalkers from MT contemplating a visit will be considered a threat and can expect to have a bad day if they act upon those idiotic thoughts.

bumfunkegypt@live.com

sue lee

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Re: General Betrayal
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2007, 05:46:43 PM »

Crysti,
Does the truth bother you? It must, because that is all I have pointed out. Don't even get me started on why we went to war. I think all politicians are dishonest, and I would prefer a revolution to an election.
Iraq is a mistake" we are well past the point of salvaging anything noble or honest from Bush's massive, historic debacle. We have only this brutal reality: Iraq is, and forever will be, one of the most extraordinary wastes in all of American history". Even the republican base is coming around. They were lied to, false intelligence, a desire for revenge, and now look at what we are stuck with.
By the way I am independent and lean liberal on social issues. The democrats are as worthless as the republicans in my humble opinion. So that kills you liberal theory. The good general is a yes man, just like all career military. Do you really believe he would stand up and say "my commander in chief is wrong"  Blind loyalty will get you nowhere, try an independent thought.
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riar

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Re: General Betrayal
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2007, 06:48:56 PM »

We shouldn't forget how the Bush campaign slandered John McCain, another war hero. Why is it okay for Republicans to do it?

Exactly. If you want to be the general, then take the heat. If it's slander--sue. It's America. We're terribly irreverant. No one is beyond reproach, and when they are, we are looking at a hostile takeover of our right to speak out unless we become a monarchy, dictatorship, or communist type of regime that is beyond reproach. I watched that middle aged woman with a T-shirt that said, Bush killed her son, get handcuffed and hauled away. She was standing at the front of the place where Laura Bush was speaking and hoped to speak with her. I thought we had a right to peaceful assembly too?


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riar

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Re: General Betrayus
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2007, 07:17:33 PM »

John, Do you consider the Admiral for whom General Petraeus works for, unpatriotic?

Quote
WASHINGTON, Sep 12 (IPS) - In sharp contrast to the lionisation of Gen. David Petraeus by members of the U.S. Congress during his testimony this week, Petraeus's superior, Admiral William Fallon, chief of the Central Command (CENTCOM), derided Petraeus as a sycophant during their first meeting in Baghdad last March, according to Pentagon sources familiar with reports of the meeting.

Fallon told Petraeus that he considered him to be "an a**-kissing little chickensh**" and added, "I hate people like that", the sources say. That remark reportedly came after Petraeus began the meeting by making remarks that Fallon interpreted as trying to ingratiate himself with a superior.


Riley97:

No I don't consider the Admiral unpatriotic if he made those remarks.  If we were to examine history I'm sure we would find many examples of people making unflattering remarks about even Eisenhower, Patton, McArthur
and George Washington. Yet I'm confident if any organization in their time were to take out a full page ad in
a major newspaper, and link the word "betray" to these men's names, there would have been hell to pay,
as there should be today.

Now you can dance around all you want, but the bottom line is moveon.org crossed the line big time
with this disgraceful ad. And if the Dem presidential candidates are too afraid of moveon.org to speak
out against this ad, then heaven help us if they're ever elected President.

    I believe that John Kopke said this about Move On crossing the line. HELLO!!!! What did "Swift Boat Veterans for truth" do to John Kerry?  Talk about slandering someones' good name. Nothing surprising though, that is a republican tactic. If your man doesn't look too good, then smear the other fellow. John Kerry served his country honorably, and he fought bravely in Vietnam. But since Bush was AWOL from his guard service, they attacked Kerrys' service.  I read that those men who made the ad were honored later with medals. PLEASE! Everything the republican party stands for is a lie. Sorry, John, but thats the truth.

Excuse me, riar AND suelee, but several of your favorite liberal dems voted for the war, I mean wasn't it you who said in your post: "The war is rotten, the leaders who perpetrate the war are dishonest?" Obama is the only liberal who disagreed with the war from the get go...let remember that. The democrats can end the war you know. They can cut off funding! They won't because they would appear more anti-patriotic than they already do. They just want the American people to think they can do nothing to end the war--like we are that stupid! Check out who has the lower ratings: our congress or the president. Americans are smarter than that!

As a conservative, there is no better way to see liberalism and the Democratic party being exposed than by left wing groups like MoveOn.org. Please keep speaking MoveOn.org!

John...I enjoy your posts. Very informative. :)

I would have voted for the war too. The propaganda about the WMD's were a pretty good scare tactic coming out of 9-11. But the reports were manipulated. His first months in office, Cheney spent more time at the Pentagon than any other immediate official in history. What were he and Rumsfeld doing there? They certainly weren't preventing a terrorist attack because we had 9-11. The investigation into the WMD's has two phases. The second phase would get into actual altered reports. When the first phase was finished , the Repugs were still a majority and blocked the second phase from beginning. I haven't checked lately how that was coming along. I do remember a retired lieutenant colonel stating: They weren't looking for the truth, they had their own agenda. Watch your response. We don't want to slander the retired lieutenant colonel.

As far as cutting off funding, I'm all for that. But we do have to watch the Republican spin. They love to pit people against an ideal. You know if you don't love the war you can't love the troops, jobs vs. the environment, and cut the funds, hurt the troops. These catchy little spinners are short enough to stick with people. And Americans are certainly not smarter than that. Our average IQ is a dismal 98. We rank 17th in the world for smarts and it shows.

I'm not all that thrilled with either party. I just choose the lesser of two evils. I already wrote Dingell today about the Dems recent round of pork belly spending with some really ludicrous earmarks. Lobbying must stop, and can the earmarks. 
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John Kopke

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Re: General Betrayus
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2007, 09:24:24 PM »

Very telling that all the libs point in this direction and then that direction, but avoid the topic.
If you have a gripe about how swift boaters treated Senator Kerry etc. create a topic and
address it.

As far as this topic goes either get behind moveon.orgs ad, or line up against, but spare us
the smoke screen. 

On a number of occasions when the libs criticized President Bush for this or that, policy and I
also disagreed with the policy, at least I had the honesty to say so.  From what I seen from
lib posters in this topic they are partisans so filled with venom they can't give an inch even
to the point they won't speak out against the indefensible.     

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John Kopke

Frenchfry

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Re: General Betrayus
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2007, 09:49:54 PM »

Multi-tasking must be difficult for those with Republican brains since they require one thought at a time.

I’m not necessarily talking about you John since I’m not convinced you are capable of having a thought (At least not of your own.)

It’s your kind that has the United States heading toward bankruptcy yet not realize what you’ve done or perhaps not even care.
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This is what I see when I visit:

"Sorry Frenchfry, you are banned from posting and sending personal messages on this forum.
This ban is not set to expire."

No emails, no warnings, no communication whatsoever...just that ban

May be what happened to the other libs as well.

I guess disabling the report to admin link only on the lib side was indicative of the slanted games they play.

Enjoy your spoon-fed Faux News type right-wing echo-chamber.

Edited to add:

This is the only way to answer some of the questions posed:

1) I did nothing to warrant the banishment, it's political.

2) It's the router that's blocked but considering all the nonsense right-wing games being played by those running the site...it's just not worth it to bypass the banishment block.

3) The moron stalkers from MT contemplating a visit will be considered a threat and can expect to have a bad day if they act upon those idiotic thoughts.

bumfunkegypt@live.com

John Kopke

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Re: General Betrayus
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2007, 10:08:45 PM »

Clearly there are people whom would take a cr*p in the middle of a party, not because
they wanted to contribute to the festivities, but because that is the only way they can
get attention. 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2007, 10:15:16 PM by John Kopke »
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John Kopke

Frenchfry

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Re: General Betrayus
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2007, 10:17:31 PM »

Clearly there are people whom would take a cr*p in the middle of a party, not because
they wanted to contribute to the festivities, but because that is the only way they can
get attention. 

That’s the thing John…. You think that crap is festive and cause for celebration.

Party ‘til you puke old dude…. Just watch out for the undigested corn  :D


Logged
This is what I see when I visit:

"Sorry Frenchfry, you are banned from posting and sending personal messages on this forum.
This ban is not set to expire."

No emails, no warnings, no communication whatsoever...just that ban

May be what happened to the other libs as well.

I guess disabling the report to admin link only on the lib side was indicative of the slanted games they play.

Enjoy your spoon-fed Faux News type right-wing echo-chamber.

Edited to add:

This is the only way to answer some of the questions posed:

1) I did nothing to warrant the banishment, it's political.

2) It's the router that's blocked but considering all the nonsense right-wing games being played by those running the site...it's just not worth it to bypass the banishment block.

3) The moron stalkers from MT contemplating a visit will be considered a threat and can expect to have a bad day if they act upon those idiotic thoughts.

bumfunkegypt@live.com
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