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old salt

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Re: UAW on strike against GM.
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2007, 01:02:41 PM »

The UAW’s auto-plant shutdown and a looming state-government shutdown are more than a coincidence in timing; they are both the product of anachronistic union cultures which hold that guaranteed jobs and benefits are an entitlement.

To prevent future budget crises, the states’ powerful government unions and their Democrat puppets must give ground on gold-plated teacher pension plans, health-care plans, and privatization issues.

So too, the UAW. General Motors recognizes that current talks are the key to the company’s future. Without fundamental reform of union pension plans, health-care plans, — sound familiar? — and work rules, GM cannot compete in today’s auto market.

Michigan residents have watched in horror as these twin slow-motion train wrecks have unfolded slowly and inevitably this summer. Perhaps they are the final, agonizing howl of unions increasingly outmoded in Thomas Friedman’s “flat world” — but they seem determined to take a state and three auto companies with them.

Written by Henry  Payne, Detroit freelance writer
http://energy.nationalreview.com/post/?q=N2I2YjcxYWZkOWEyMjBiNzBmNGVjMGJiNTMxMzA1NTI=
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thomasfox

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Re: UAW on strike against GM.
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2007, 01:34:58 PM »

The big three are all public companies - so their financial state is public knowledge.

It has been years since making cars for the big three was a profitable business - they make
more money financing cars than they do selling them, in a lot of cases.

I don't begrudge any union workers anything that they're due by contract or law, but I
can completely see where the auto companies are looking to reduce costs. From what I
understand, the line workers were willing to agree to pay cuts and benefit co-pay
increases.... I wonder, "What were the executives willing to give up?"

I don't know if it is reasonable to require the auto companies to guarantee jobs any more.
If they're not selling enough cars to warrant keeping a certain number of people on the
payroll, what are they supposed to do? Pay them not to work?

Or is the issue more outsourcing production to other countries? I freely admit I'm not
as knowledgeable about the specific details as I'd like to be.

I'd like to see a system where executive pay was tied to line pay - and anything more than
$50-75 thousand a year was tied to the performance of the company.... That way, if they
run the company well and make a billion in profit, they earn their million dollar salary. If not,
they still earn enough to pay the bills, but not anything crazy.

Sounds like a socialist, I know... Funny coming from a Republican!
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chuntley

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Re: UAW on strike against GM.
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2007, 01:43:53 PM »

REPUBLICAN  BS  AS USUAL. ANOTHER BLAME THE DEMS FOR WANTING COMPENSATION FOR ALL THE YEARS THEY WORKED IN THOSE HELL HOLES CALLED AUTO PLANTS. HOW DARE THE WORKERS, TO THINKING THAT i THE REPUBLICAN DO NOT DESERVE THE MILLIONS IN BONUS i AND MY FRIENDS GET EVERY YEAR. 


AS USUAL, YA GOT TA LOVE THESE POOR BUTT REPUBLICANS THAT BLOW THEIR HORNS FOR THE RICH.

ALSO THEY ALWAYS, HAVE TO THROW IN SOMETHING THAT SOMEONE ELSE WROTE,  IN ORDER TO MAKE THEMSELVES, SOUND LIKE THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. WE ALL KNOW THE NEWS PAPERS,  ARE A MAJOR PROPERGANDA TOOL OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. SO TO QUOTE SOMTHING A WRITER FOR THE PAPER WROTE MEANS NOTHING.
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old salt

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Re: UAW on strike against GM.
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2007, 03:42:00 PM »

REPUBLICAN  BS  AS USUAL. ANOTHER BLAME THE DEMS FOR WANTING COMPENSATION FOR ALL THE YEARS THEY WORKED IN THOSE HELL HOLES CALLED AUTO PLANTS. HOW DARE THE WORKERS, TO THINKING THAT i THE REPUBLICAN DO NOT DESERVE THE MILLIONS IN BONUS i AND MY FRIENDS GET EVERY YEAR. 


AS USUAL, YA GOT TA LOVE THESE POOR BUTT REPUBLICANS THAT BLOW THEIR HORNS FOR THE RICH.

ALSO THEY ALWAYS, HAVE TO THROW IN SOMETHING THAT SOMEONE ELSE WROTE,  IN ORDER TO MAKE THEMSELVES, SOUND LIKE THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. WE ALL KNOW THE NEWS PAPERS,  ARE A MAJOR PROPERGANDA TOOL OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. SO TO QUOTE SOMTHING A WRITER FOR THE PAPER WROTE MEANS NOTHING.

Typical Dem response.  Bash the writer, bash the author, bash the newspaper.  Don't bother with the facts.

Sheesh, could you say it any louder?
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stevens_monroe

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Re: UAW on strike against GM.
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2007, 04:05:39 PM »

I think GM should just up and tell the UAW to sod off and start hiring people off the street.
as a fellow U.AW worker i stand right next to my fellow brothers and sisters.
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Mike Ingels

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Re: UAW on strike against GM.
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2007, 04:34:19 PM »

Hey, I don't blame the Republicans for what they say.  Unions are a power block for the Democrat Party.  Republicans want to win elections, so they try to undercut the unions wherever and whenever possible.

It's a strategic, political decision.  Demonize the opposition.  And nothing could be better for Republicans than if the unions ceased to exist.

The reality is that the domestic auto companies don't sell enough cars that people want to buy.  That's why they are in trouble.  Certainly the high cost of health care makes them less competitive vs. a car made in a nation with national health care, but the past reliance on trucks and SUV's left the domestics in a terrible place.

But that's a management and design issue.  And those aren't, generally, union jobs.

People have rights to free speech, free assembly and freedom not to be forced to work against one's will.  Those are the bedrock freedoms that unions are based on.

GM, BTW, has every right to staff their plants with non-union workers.  Let's see them try.
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SMASH

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Re: UAW on strike against GM.
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2007, 05:26:10 PM »

They just might, it just won't be around here.
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Boylanjl

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Re: UAW on strike against GM.
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2007, 07:07:49 PM »

French fry what you said was very well stated and I agree.
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sue lee

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Re: UAW on strike against GM.
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2007, 08:43:22 PM »

I will continue to knock the republican party because they do the majority more harm then anyone. Unions are good for people, it is as simple as that. Not good for corporations. The GOP doesn't like that. Hell, half the union members don't vote anyhow.
Brainwashing is an amazing thing. The democrats use unions as a voting base, like the GOP uses evangelicals. Is there a problem there for you?
The GOP taught you unions were bad, and Smash and old salt have fallen for it. I thought you guys were better. What the hell is wrong with collective bargaining? I am all for the middle class getting ahead. the status quo is not allowing this to happen any longer. We have been under republican rule for the majority of the time since 1970, and it has been a royal screw up. Spout your silly BS, but look around you, that is where the truth is.
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riar

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Re: UAW on strike against GM.
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2007, 10:54:18 PM »

Sue lee, what has the Democrat party done for the unions? Other than bilk them out of hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars!!

They gave how many millions to our pal Bill and he gave them NAFTA, what a deal?

You go on and on about the Parties, one in particular, and claim to be independant? You said yourself both parties are virtually interchangeable, why the non-stop attack on the Republicans?

Hell Dingell even wants to jack up the CAFE standards, another knife in the auto industry back.

Where does all your hate come from, for one Party?

Every Republican brings up NAFTA as if the agreement itself caused a big economic problem, when it is not the agreement but the failure to incorporate enforceable labor or environmental conditions into NAFTA. That leaves the NAFTA agreement with a huge loophole for greedy corporate interests to work people for $2.00 per hour elsewhere--sweat labor, and complain that U.S. union workers are to blame, especially in this Cheney environment of break the unions, and rape average America.
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BigRedDog

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Re: UAW on strike against GM.
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2007, 11:10:39 PM »

13 ABC Toledo just reported on the news that they have good information that the strike is about over...   guess we'll just have to wait and see how good that info is ;)
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Whiskers

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Re: UAW on strike against GM.
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2007, 12:11:24 AM »

I think GM should just up and tell the UAW to sod off and start hiring people off the street.
as a fellow U.AW worker i stand right next to my fellow brothers and sisters.

My husband is a UAW member and we support it as well!
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PrincessAmy

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Re: UAW on strike against GM.
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2007, 01:26:40 AM »

My dad's a UAW member and retiree from Ford and thinks they're dumb for striking....but he has never been a huge fan of the union because of the people whose jobs he saw it save..
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JeepersCreepers

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Re: UAW on strike against GM.
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2007, 02:05:54 AM »

My message here is short. The price difference between a foreign vehicle and an equivalent US vehicle averages about $3,000. Chrysler has the highest retiree costs and the average wage and benefits costs for current union workers are about $70.00/hr. for them. The automakers want a $30.00/hr. reduction in these costs to get parity with what current foreign car companies pay. The average union worker man hours to build a vehicle for all car companies is about 30 hours. That means they would save about $900 to manufacture each vehicle to reach parity. So, where is the other $2,100? It's in executive pay. Short and sour!
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7n7

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Re: UAW on strike against GM.
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2007, 08:41:21 AM »

I don't understand why everybody who screws two bolts & nuts into a car thinks they deserve $30 an hour plus excellent benefits.  I went to college and so did most of my friends.  Very few of us make what an auto worker with a GED makes.  >:(

I see your point and mostly agree, but then I think of the number of retired auto workers that have had knees and shoulders replaced or can't make a fist because they used an impact wrench for 30 years. I just spent 6 days camping with several guys like this, it's a sad sight.
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