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[Administration]

I did ask for everyone to stop name-calling yesterday. Can't we have civil discussions without name-calling? Maybe we can have a moratorium on name-calling and personal attacks for the weekend (I have a ton of family and friends coming to town tonight through Sunday and I hope I can trust all you MTalkers to remain civil and orderly while I am otherwise distracted). Thanks.
-Ira

[cc]

I did ask for everyone to stop name-calling yesterday. Can't we have civil discussions without name-calling? Maybe we can have a moratorium on name-calling and personal attacks for the weekend (I have a ton of family and friends coming to town tonight through Sunday and I hope I can trust all you MTalkers to remain civil and orderly while I am otherwise distracted). Thanks.
-Ira

Care to place wagers on that Ira?    As much as I say Welcome to you - I hate that you have to edit, and/or delete any words of any person.   

[tampachicken]

I've never once tried to encourage hate against people. I've stated homosexuality is not right, and it's not right to teach kids a wrong is right.

But some are acting like I am trying to gather an army to destory people. It's delusion to think I am promoting hate against people. The act of homosexuality is what I've opposed.

Sojo..it is not right because you read that out of the bible... so what somone chooses to teach their children is their business...  If you believe it is wrong.. don't teach your children it is right and you can perpetuate your beliefs....  Thankfully.. (for people like me) It appears that the majority of people are not teaching their children it is wrong...  I could even accept.. it is against our religious beliefs... our religion is ours.. not everyone feels this way... because that would be the truth...

I grew up where I was taught that drinking alcohol was a sin.. one of the seven deadly sins.. My family never condmened others for drinking.. It was never in our home... It was not "our" belief...  My mother eventually ended up owning a restaurant that served alcohol...

You keep flipping back to the abomination stauff.. that is leviticus... yet you say we are not held to the laws of leviticus... well in Romans it does not say it is an abomination... it is not one of the seven deadly sins.. it is not in the ten comandments.. Jesus never said anything against it...  just that chapter.. again in Romans.. I still say when you read it in it's complete context... Paul said that god punished these peolple and "made" them desire unnatural acts... then when you continue to read romans meaning the entire book... when the question of the jewish law regarding what is clean.. of course "clean" is everything... the Gentiles were not circumsized... Paul said... it is only unclean if you think that it is unclean...

Of Course this again... is the problem with Romans... and the teachings of Paul... Billy Graham is the one that said you are listening to a one sided conversation...

What does the bible teach about humility... what did Jesus teach when he gave the sermon on the mount?  I truly believe that when you continue on and on.. you a missing a more inportant message here... Love..  

This whole country is divided into not just the issue of homosexuality... There are people that feel that even among the christians.. you are not a "true" christian unless you are born Again..

Whatever happened to letting people alone... I don't think there is a person on this blog who has not read the that homosexuality is a sin... I commend you for your convictions... I have a strong faith also.. I tend to follow the teachings of Jesus... not Paul... or John (revelations)... not because they are right.. or wrong... because of how these books became part of the holy bible..  

It is no secret I like to study gnostic readings... and the books that were left out of the bible... man decided what would be placed in...

Sojo.. I do get afraid of people that speak and write what you do... Maybe it is because I have seen how people.. not you.. people say the same things as you do.. and use it to justify what they interpret as "g-ds work"...   I am suppose to live in a country where I should not fear religious percecution... yet I do.. I of all people should not be afraid.. My religious upbringing alone should give me some comfort... I don't fear "g-d" I fear weak minds... that feed off of this evangelical spew....

Just like the weak minds that blow up abortion clinics... and kill homosexuals...  in the name of G-d.  No I am not saying that you would ever do anything like this... However.. what you continually write over and over again.. is the exact same thing that the ones who have committed these crimes... use as their justification...   So how am I to know the difference?

I challange you to read Oranges are not the only fruit.... I know it is not the bible... It is a true story though and has a lot about the bible in it... Please consider it...  Anyone for that matter... It is about a very religious person who makes a very simple observation about homosexuality and the bible...  

[Sojourner]

1.) Sojo..it is not right because you read that out of the bible...

2.) You keep flipping back to the abomination stauff.. that is leviticus... yet you say we are not held to the laws of leviticus... well in Romans it does not say it is an abomination... 

3.) Sojo.. I do get afraid of people that speak and write what you do...

Just like the weak minds that blow up abortion clinics... and kill homosexuals...  in the name of G-d.  No I am not saying that you would ever do anything like this... However.. what you continually write over and over again.. is the exact same thing that the ones who have committed these crimes... use as their justification...   So how am I to know the difference?

1.) I put forth my beliefs in a topic related. Why is that so bad? You just now spoke and said, "Sojo..it is not right because you read that out of the bible..." But if I state you're wrong on something, then I am being hateful? Do you see the double standard there?

2.) As I pointed out in Acts today, the Gentiles were under the Jewish laws of Sexual Immorality, and homosexuality is included in those laws of immorality. And Romans is clear it's wrong, Corinthians, etc., etc.. You're beating the wind trying to read the sin of homosexuality out of the Bible. At least be honest, it's sin according to the Bible.

3.) Wait a minute. It's wrong for me to state I believe homosexuality is wrong according to God, but you are labelling me with killers - suggesting I think like they do? But your post won't be deleted will it?

Pure hypocrisy both on the users of this forum and the Administration. It's sick injustice.

[bloo II]

Arent we ready for this thread to be locked yet?

I thought we just weren't reading what we don't like....? 

[tampachicken]

1.) I put forth my beliefs in a topic related. Why is that so bad? You just now spoke and said, "Sojo..it is not right because you read that out of the bible..." But if I state you're wrong on something, then I am being hateful? Do you see the double standard there?

2.) As I pointed out in Acts today, the Gentiles were under the Jewish laws of Sexual Immorality, and homosexuality is included in those laws of immorality. And Romans is clear it's wrong, Corinthians, etc., etc.. You're beating the wind trying to read the sin of homosexuality out of the Bible. At least be honest, it's sin according to the Bible.

3.) Wait a minute. It's wrong for me to state I believe homosexuality is wrong according to God, but you are labelling me with killers - suggesting I think like they do? But your post won't be deleted will it?

Pure hypocrisy both on the users of this forum and the Administration. It's sick injustice.

I am sorrry...  I thought I had posted a pretty diplomatic and honestl rant to express "how" my perception is of your post.. so whatever you are talking about with double standards... I don't know?  I already stated I do not agree with removong post... I think if I were queen of the universe.. I would only pull something if somone wrote "that sojo lives at ________ or this is lethle's phone #... or some sort of threat something like that.. so I am not part of any censorship...

The part about it not beling right becauseyou are reading it our of the bible was an answer to you stating that people teaching their children it is not "right" to be a homosexual..is "wrong"... see when you read it in the entire paragraph...that is what that statement is pointing out.. Who are you to say that somone is wrong for teaching their child their beliefs... as it would be for me to say you are wrong if you choose to teach your child that homosexuality is a sin...

I have never said you were wrong... what I have said is.. not everyone.. including mainstream religions... that it is wrong... I have also made a pretty good argument why some people like myself... people that are even straight... say the same things... There are pieces of the puzzle that are missing... I know this may beyond your scope of what your religious beliefs allow you to go.. I can assure you though, I learned these things about the bible... how it was put together, and the theology school, that holds similar beliefs as your own..  So taking this into consideration.. is why I would not be so concrete in my judgements....

I did not label you with killer... I actually went out of my way to clearly state "not you"... I just pointed out that they use the same statements as you do as their justification for their actions... This is what makes me feel fearful.. because when I read or hear somone who continually focus on the same subject matter.. How am I to tell who are the ones that will take it to the "next level"... I expressed my fear... How can I tell  It is not like anyone is wearing a sign... so how do I know you are not one that will harm?  The ones that do harm say the same things as you?  I have heard it... I have been spat on by a woman holding a bible... How can I tell?  That was the message I was trying to convey...

Now we have beat this dead horse.... I an sorry to offend you.. it looks as if I am back to square one.. where I always seem to be..

I can't help but think of that Gnarls Barkley song crazy.... it says 'it wasn't because I did not know enough... I knew too much"... and that is what makes me crazy... unfortunately I don't do ignorant  very well....  maybe I should sign up for a labotomy...

[Sojourner]

I am sorrry...  I thought I had posted a pretty diplomatic and honestl rant to express "how" my perception is of your post.. so whatever you are talking about with double standards... I don't know?  I already stated I do not agree with removong post... I think if I were queen of the universe.. I would only pull something if somone wrote "that sojo lives at ________ or this is lethle's phone #... or some sort of threat something like that.. so I am not part of any censorship...

The part about it not beling right becauseyou are reading it our of the bible was an answer to you stating that people teaching their children it is not "right" to be a homosexual..is "wrong"... see when you read it in the entire paragraph...that is what that statement is pointing out.. Who are you to say that somone is wrong for teaching their child their beliefs... as it would be for me to say you are wrong if you choose to teach your child that homosexuality is a sin...

I have never said you were wrong... what I have said is.. not everyone.. including mainstream religions... that it is wrong... I have also made a pretty good argument why some people like myself... people that are even straight... say the same things... There are pieces of the puzzle that are missing... I know this may beyond your scope of what your religious beliefs allow you to go.. I can assure you though, I learned these things about the bible... how it was put together, and the theology school, that holds similar beliefs as your own..  So taking this into consideration.. is why I would not be so concrete in my judgements....

I did not label you with killer... I actually went out of my way to clearly state "not you"... I just pointed out that they use the same statements as you do as their justification for their actions... This is what makes me feel fearful.. because when I read or hear somone who continually focus on the same subject matter.. How am I to tell who are the ones that will take it to the "next level"... I expressed my fear... How can I tell  It is not like anyone is wearing a sign... so how do I know you are not one that will harm?  The ones that do harm say the same things as you?  I have heard it... I have been spat on by a woman holding a bible... How can I tell?  That was the message I was trying to convey...

Now we have beat this dead horse.... I an sorry to offend you.. it looks as if I am back to square one.. where I always seem to be..

I can't help but think of that Gnarls Barkley song crazy.... it says 'it wasn't because I did not know enough... I knew too much"... and that is what makes me crazy... unfortunately I don't do ignorant  very well....  maybe I should sign up for a labotomy...

I assure you, I am not going to spit on anyone or beat them up. That would be a violation of the very scripture I profess. Just because someone has firm Christian beliefs doesn't mean they are dangerous or hateful. So don't even bring up that nonsense about getting fearful because someone states their beliefs. And you know the reason I am so presistent in speaking my beliefs is because of the strong opposition when I post my beliefs. If I said, "God's cool with homosexuality," then no one would be getting worked up, but because I post my beliefs they hate they get worked up. I simply say, "God is not alright with homosexuality, and it's wrong to teach your kids it's alright with God," and all Hell breaks loose, and now I am not allowed to state what I truly and sincerely believe, just because those who hate me call it hate? H'm...